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The best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city...
What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city?
Why? 1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement. 2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those who kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto), was thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105 fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault. Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists utopia. 3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely 4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane. 5) Extensive system of bike paths 6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists on the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion, reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system) etc.). 7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in traffic I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now. The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are. That's what I think, Paul |
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#2
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"Paul R" writes:
Widen streets or remove extra lane. What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose. Dragan -- Dragan Cvetkovic, To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!! |
#3
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"Dragan Cvetkovic" wrote in message ... "Paul R" writes: Widen streets or remove extra lane. What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose. Dragan Some people believe that bike lanes are inherently unsafe. They believe that the best way to ensure drivers treat cyclists with respect is to have cyclists part of traffic. Personally, I feel safest on streets with extra wide curb lanes. If a street has two lanes travelling the same direction, one lane could be removed and dedicated to cyclists. During rush hour here in downtown Toronto (at least in summer), there are often upwards of 5-10 or even more bikes waiting at a stop light. they could almost fill up a car lane. Cheers, Paul |
#4
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"Paul R" wrote in :
What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city? Why? 1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement. 2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those who kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto), was thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105 fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault. Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists utopia. 3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely 4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane. 5) Extensive system of bike paths 6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists on the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion, reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system) etc.). 7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in traffic I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now. The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are. That's what I think, Paul 2,3,4 and 6. Europeans make it work, USA can too! Dan Cell phones and drunk drivers are a bikers worst nightmare! |
#5
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"Paul R" wrote in message ... What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city? Why? 1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement. YES 2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those who kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto), was thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105 fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault. Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists utopia. YES 3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely YES 4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane. YES 5) Extensive system of bike paths YES 6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists on the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion, reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system) etc.). YES 7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in traffic YES I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now. The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are. That's what I think, Paul One change wont solve the problem, byt make significant changes to everything, and the problem is less than a problem Micheal |
#6
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Paul R wrote:
What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city? Why? 4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane. #4, definitely. Why? Because wider lanes work. As does traffic calming. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#7
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"Dragan Cvetkovic" wrote in message ... "Paul R" writes: Widen streets or remove extra lane. What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose. My assumption is that what is proposed here is the reduction of a four-lane street to three. This has several benefits: a. central two-way turn lane means that through-traffic is not delayed by left-turning traffic b. room is created for shoulder or bike lane c. the traffic lanes look narrower to the motorists and thus vehicle speeds are diminished, as demonstrated in Portland, Oregon (USA). (http://www.lakesammfriends.org/BikeL...lmTraffic.html) -- Warm Regards, Claire Petersky please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply Home of the meditative cyclist: http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/ See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky |
#8
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1. Seeing that the protective Styrofoam hat is the last (and pretty much
least important) factor in a mishap, I would leave it there. I hate to think of all the kids who have died after their parents filled their heads with little more information than how magically powerful their fancy helmet was. 2. I agree, but more precisely, our first problem is we treat traffic laws like etiquette. People who speed everywhere (like everyone else) and think it is A-OK despite the death toll, are inflamed by a cyclist running a stop sign - a cyclist who could do little more to them than scratch their paint. 3. Drivers will just ignore whatever training they feel isn't important to them. You have to change the whole situation. In the US (and third world) cyclists are seen as reckless suicidal road-kill. It is more than just traffic safety. 4. Instead of attempting to re-route present spending to change how we build roads, stop the nearly 1 trillion a year subsidizing drivers that keeps people from cycling. The #1 factor in making cycling safe is more cyclists on the roads. Property taxes pay for roads, fire and police services for accidents, runoff, etc. Income taxes pay to defend oil. And let's not forget "free" parking. If driving suddenly became a dime or three more expensive per mile, you would see more cycling. 5. NO NO NO. The reason we made bike paths is because we disconnected all our side streets. I never needed a bike path where I grew up, and I never bicycled more than a few blocks on a major road. Mandate that any new subdivision be connected at least via bike path, and any isolated subdivisions be connected where feasible. If we would never have provided free urban school bussing (saving all the money for education, not transportation) people would have chosen to save the few bucks per day per kid; and live in closer, connected suburbs. 6. NO NO again. Don't subsidize cyclists - de-subsidize drivers. Give every employee the cash it costs to provide his free parking, then charge them only if they use it. The tax laws are changing towards this. 7. Rather than giving cyclists licenses, I would rather see a really good safety education program, geared towards the local area, then give people licenses which prove they have taken the course. A $10 fee or so would be enough to pay the instructor. It would be worth far more just as insurance in case you (our your surviving spouse) find yourself in court. That's also the main reason I wear a helmet. I would rather hear my lawyer say "Mr. Haston was a very experienced road cyclist. Aside from reading a whole book on cycling safety, he attended the certified safety training for his district, and always wore his helmet. Better this than the opposition's lawyer saying "Mr. Haston was clearly reckless - he wasn't even wearing a helmet". Best Solutions? I think eliminating all subsidies for driving or using oil is the first real solution. When the high gas taxes, tolls, and parking costs drive millions of more people to bicycle, these problems will be reduced. Look at European cities where anywhere from one out of ten to one out of three trips are by bike. "Paul R" wrote in message ... What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city? Why? 1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement. 2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those who kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto), was thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105 fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault. Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists utopia. 3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely 4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane. 5) Extensive system of bike paths 6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists on the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion, reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system) etc.). 7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in traffic I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now. The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are. That's what I think, Paul |
#9
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:19:46 -0500, Paul R wrote:
7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in traffic I don't know about licensing, but proper training is by far the most effective tool. I've ridden for years in the city, and for a short time as a courier--the best thing you can do is become a hyper aware and better rider. So what if 15% of drivers payed attention at the bike-car awareness seminar during licensing--the other 85% were thinking of hamburgers. Enforcing the law and ticketing in bike/car incident, be it the car or the cyclist's fault, will perhaps make folks take bikes more seriously. I know that when riding in Sweden, I won't take the chance to ride at night without a light, because I'll get a deserved ticket. When I'm here in the States, I get lazy and rely on my reflectors for short evening jaunts to the store from time to time. Helmets should be something like 30th on the list, btw, they can certainly work, but preventing falling down is the priority right? :P In car/bike interactions, if you get whacked hard, wearing a helmet won't help a great deal when your chest gets crushed. It'll certainly be of use if you take a little spill sliding out in a corner or something like that of course... |
#10
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Robert Haston wrote:
6. NO NO again. Don't subsidize cyclists - de-subsidize drivers. Give every employee the cash it costs to provide his free parking, then charge them only if they use it. The tax laws are changing towards this. The European model "subsidizes" cyclists by not making them pay motor fuel tax, same as in USA. The difference is that the motor fuel taxes over there are a notable fraction of the total cost of owning/operating a car. A 20mpg car averaging a thousand miles a month in the USA might cost $25 a month in tax on the fuel, as compared to $100 - $200 a month in Europe. Increasing the USA fuel taxes would be the simplest way to de-subsidize driving. Mitch. |
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