Bike adjustments

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 10:28:47 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 2:08:32 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
On 12/10/2019 1:58 PM, wrote:

snip

What is your dream bike Frank (honest question) and what is custom on that frame or bike?

Pretty much everyone in the U.S. dreams of a Rivendell of some sort.

You are kidding, no?

Lou


The problem with our American friends is that they aren't kidding. Those clowns who wanted me to choose a Paramount "mixte" over a Utopia Kranich really meant it.

Andre Jute
The last European intellectual who doesn't hate America and Americans

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 10:49:13 PM UTC, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

IF I was buying a new touring bike, I'd SERIOUSLY consider one with disc brakes simply because with those I wouldn't have to worry about a pannier hitting a brake arm and thereby causing brake drag.

You should try Magura's rim hydraulics. They're service free, they really work, they're pogressive, they last forever, and they're not expensive.

Andre Jute
Some components really are superior

On 12/11/2019 5:14 PM, James wrote:
On 12/12/19 5:16 am, Chalo wrote:

There's a place for disc brakes.Â* "Every bike, all the time" isn't
it.


I didn't suggest that it was, Chalo.Â* I'm quite happy with the rim
brakes on my road bike, for example.Â* I rarely ride it in the rain so
rims take many years to wear out, and my Campagnolo levers have a button
that releases the caliper so I can easily remove and replace a wheel
without disconnecting a cable or anything like it.

But for a touring bike that I expect is used in all weather, where the
bike owner wants to use fat tyres that won't slip between rim brake pads
easily, disc brakes seem to me to be a good option, and certainly
shouldn't be so utterly dismissed as Frank did.

Good grief, James, Lou asked me what _I'd_ like on _my_ dream bike. I
stated that I preferred cantilever brakes. Was there some hidden
requirement that I also give homage to discs before stating my preference?

Anyone who's been around here for a few months should know that I've
discussed disc brakes thoroughly, and ridden several bikes that had
them. I'm familiar with their advantages and disadvantages. I've never
needed them in in 45 years of riding, so I wouldn't order them on MY
dream bike.

BTW, I flip the axle quick release and open the cantilevers on our
tandem to remove the front wheel with its 32mm tires every time I load
that bike onto the roof rack. It takes me less than ten seconds to get
the wheel out.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:03:58 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:10:51 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:06:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:25:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:20 PM, James wrote:
On 10/12/19 4:32 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/8/2019 7:48 PM, James wrote:
On 8/12/19 10:28 am, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was
measured last
Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The
measuring program
didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into
account in
contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange
because most
of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy
day yesterday
so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I
adjusted
by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike.
Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round
trip) to
discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the
shop a
drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show
the
measurements of the position of the shifter on the
handlebar and this
came very close what I measured on my bikes especially
measurement E,
F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct
frame size
taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and
the new
Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my
measurements into
account. My question is what do these measurement programs
exactly
do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these
measurements?


The last bike I bought (gravel) was advertised with a chart
that was scaled to leg length. According to my leg length I
should have chosen an XL frame, but I reviewed the frame
angles and geometry against my custom road racing bike, and
decided on a L size frame. The XL would have had my hands
too high. Even so, with the L frame I have the head stem
all the way down, and I used a longer stem than the supplied
one of course, and I used a longer seat post too.

I also dislike the sloping top tube "compact" design, for
the simple reasons that;

a) longer frame tubes would probably weigh less than a long
seat post, and a longer seat post likely stresses the frame
more.

b) the sloping top tube is very difficult to sit on while
you're stopped somewhere to admire the view and eat a banana.

c) the area in the triangle is reduced which restricts that
available to carry water bottles or frame bags and stuff, if
you so desire.


While bucking current fashion, you are not alone.

The #1 item in custom orders is 'level top tube'.

I wonder why this is the #1 request. Is it people who are invested in
using their old Silca frame pumps?

I suspect it's just aesthetics. And if a person likes it, why not? A
custom bike should accommodate one's quirks.


I identified 3 reasons above that have nothing to do with aesthetics.

Using a frame pump isn't a reason for me, but perhaps for a small group.

The only practical reason I can think for a sloping top tube is
increased stand over clearance, but that has never been a problem for
me. A non-practical reason might be to boast a slightly lesser frame
weight, or stiffness increase perhaps, but these are advertising claims.

I don't disagree with your reasons. But I still bet that for most
people, it's a matter of aesthetics.

You mean two right angle triangles back to back aren't an elegant
sight :-(

That would be a matter of personal taste.

But we're talking about custom bikes here. I'm betting that these days,
the demographic most likely to buy a custom-made bike is a fairly
prosperous middle-aged or older gent who began riding a long, long time
ago. And I'm betting that he (like me) still regards the dream bike of
his youth as the most beautiful.


Well, I am an "older gent" and the bikes of my youth all had a double
top tube and were made by Schwinn
https://bikehistory.org/history/1940-1949.html

Hardly what I think of as ideal today :-)

I don't think this is unusual at all. I suspect that one guy I know (now
in his 50s) still thinks Queen is the greatest music group of all time.
If you go to car shows, you'll see guys in their 80s fawning over cars
from the 1950s.

Heck, one day I took an retired old millwright (from a steel mill) to a
museum documenting our local steel industry. Looking in one display of
tools, he excitedly said "I used a sledge hammer just like that one!!"

Didn't I hear you exclaiming the merits of your slide rule?
--
cheers,

John B.


The world was a big place back then:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/53sports.jpg

still is, actually.

I still remember the first single top tube bicycle I ever saw, It was
a "10 speed English racer", as it was called, and the guy was at a
local filling station trying to figure out how to put air in his tire.
I remember that the consensus opinion of my contemporaries that it
must not be very strong (like our bikes) as it only had a single top
tube.

Those new-fangled single top-tube bicycles will never take off. Dual top
tubes are going to remain the most popular frame type
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/frame-new-atlantis.

Gee! And only $1,500, while Schwinn sells a very similar bike for $129
and with a chain guard too. the Rivendell lacks a chain guard :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 3:25:10 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 10:28:47 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 2:08:32 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
On 12/10/2019 1:58 PM, wrote:

snip

What is your dream bike Frank (honest question) and what is custom on that frame or bike?

Pretty much everyone in the U.S. dreams of a Rivendell of some sort.

You are kidding, no?

Lou


The problem with our American friends is that they aren't kidding. Those clowns who wanted me to choose a Paramount "mixte" over a Utopia Kranich really meant it.

Why not? https://www.flickr.com/photos/waterf...57629483332191 Muzi could get one for you. Pick it up in Wisconsin and see the world. With the right component group, that thing would be a total chick magnet.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/12/19 11:32 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/11/2019 5:14 PM, James wrote:
On 12/12/19 5:16 am, Chalo wrote:

There's a place for disc brakes.Â* "Every bike, all the time" isn't
it.


I didn't suggest that it was, Chalo.Â* I'm quite happy with the rim
brakes on my road bike, for example.Â* I rarely ride it in the rain so
rims take many years to wear out, and my Campagnolo levers have a
button that releases the caliper so I can easily remove and replace a
wheel without disconnecting a cable or anything like it.

But for a touring bike that I expect is used in all weather, where the
bike owner wants to use fat tyres that won't slip between rim brake
pads easily, disc brakes seem to me to be a good option, and certainly
shouldn't be so utterly dismissed as Frank did.

Good grief, James, Lou asked me what _I'd_ like on _my_ dream bike. I
stated that I preferred cantilever brakes. Was there some hidden
requirement that I also give homage to discs before stating my preference?

Hells bells, Frank, I am perfectly entitled to question your preference.
I even used logic and reason without grief!


Anyone who's been around here for a few months should know that I've
discussed disc brakes thoroughly, and ridden several bikes that had
them. I'm familiar with their advantages and disadvantages. I've never
needed them in in 45 years of riding, so I wouldn't order them on MY
dream bike.

I'm sure there are people who haven't _needed_ plenty of things that
others enjoy the benefits of. I bet there are people who live without
running water, in some places.


BTW, I flip the axle quick release and open the cantilevers on our
tandem to remove the front wheel with its 32mm tires every time I load
that bike onto the roof rack. It takes me less than ten seconds to get
the wheel out.


With disc brakes you would only need to flip the axle quick release and
take the wheel out, and not need to fiddle with the brakes at all.

--
JS

On 12/11/2019 7:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 3:25:10 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 10:28:47 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 2:08:32 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
On 12/10/2019 1:58 PM, wrote:

snip

What is your dream bike Frank (honest question) and what is custom on that frame or bike?

Pretty much everyone in the U.S. dreams of a Rivendell of some sort.

You are kidding, no?

Lou


The problem with our American friends is that they aren't kidding. Those clowns who wanted me to choose a Paramount "mixte" over a Utopia Kranich really meant it.

Why not? https://www.flickr.com/photos/waterf...57629483332191 Muzi could get one for you. Pick it up in Wisconsin and see the world. With the right component group, that thing would be a total chick magnet.

-- Jay Beattie.


Chick magnet needs Record Pista. See 'best of craigslist'
for details.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/WFDJHZ.JPG

http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopna2.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/11/2019 7:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:03:58 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:10:51 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:06:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:25:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:20 PM, James wrote:
On 10/12/19 4:32 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/8/2019 7:48 PM, James wrote:
On 8/12/19 10:28 am, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was
measured last
Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The
measuring program
didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into
account in
contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange
because most
of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy
day yesterday
so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I
adjusted
by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike.
Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round
trip) to
discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the
shop a
drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show
the
measurements of the position of the shifter on the
handlebar and this
came very close what I measured on my bikes especially
measurement E,
F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct
frame size
taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and
the new
Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my
measurements into
account. My question is what do these measurement programs
exactly
do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these
measurements?


The last bike I bought (gravel) was advertised with a chart
that was scaled to leg length. According to my leg length I
should have chosen an XL frame, but I reviewed the frame
angles and geometry against my custom road racing bike, and
decided on a L size frame. The XL would have had my hands
too high. Even so, with the L frame I have the head stem
all the way down, and I used a longer stem than the supplied
one of course, and I used a longer seat post too.

I also dislike the sloping top tube "compact" design, for
the simple reasons that;

a) longer frame tubes would probably weigh less than a long
seat post, and a longer seat post likely stresses the frame
more.

b) the sloping top tube is very difficult to sit on while
you're stopped somewhere to admire the view and eat a banana.

c) the area in the triangle is reduced which restricts that
available to carry water bottles or frame bags and stuff, if
you so desire.


While bucking current fashion, you are not alone.

The #1 item in custom orders is 'level top tube'.

I wonder why this is the #1 request. Is it people who are invested in
using their old Silca frame pumps?

I suspect it's just aesthetics. And if a person likes it, why not? A
custom bike should accommodate one's quirks.


I identified 3 reasons above that have nothing to do with aesthetics.

Using a frame pump isn't a reason for me, but perhaps for a small group.

The only practical reason I can think for a sloping top tube is
increased stand over clearance, but that has never been a problem for
me. A non-practical reason might be to boast a slightly lesser frame
weight, or stiffness increase perhaps, but these are advertising claims.

I don't disagree with your reasons. But I still bet that for most
people, it's a matter of aesthetics.

You mean two right angle triangles back to back aren't an elegant
sight :-(

That would be a matter of personal taste.

But we're talking about custom bikes here. I'm betting that these days,
the demographic most likely to buy a custom-made bike is a fairly
prosperous middle-aged or older gent who began riding a long, long time
ago. And I'm betting that he (like me) still regards the dream bike of
his youth as the most beautiful.


Well, I am an "older gent" and the bikes of my youth all had a double
top tube and were made by Schwinn
https://bikehistory.org/history/1940-1949.html

Hardly what I think of as ideal today :-)

I don't think this is unusual at all. I suspect that one guy I know (now
in his 50s) still thinks Queen is the greatest music group of all time.
If you go to car shows, you'll see guys in their 80s fawning over cars
from the 1950s.

Heck, one day I took an retired old millwright (from a steel mill) to a
museum documenting our local steel industry. Looking in one display of
tools, he excitedly said "I used a sledge hammer just like that one!!"

Didn't I hear you exclaiming the merits of your slide rule?
--
cheers,

John B.


The world was a big place back then:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/53sports.jpg

still is, actually.

I still remember the first single top tube bicycle I ever saw, It was
a "10 speed English racer", as it was called, and the guy was at a
local filling station trying to figure out how to put air in his tire.
I remember that the consensus opinion of my contemporaries that it
must not be very strong (like our bikes) as it only had a single top
tube.

Those new-fangled single top-tube bicycles will never take off. Dual top
tubes are going to remain the most popular frame type
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/frame-new-atlantis.

Gee! And only $1,500, while Schwinn sells a very similar bike for $129
and with a chain guard too. the Rivendell lacks a chain guard :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Any Schwinn China frameset for $129 is overpriced.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:35:27 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/11/2019 10:16 AM, Chalo wrote:
James wrote:

Yet mechanical discs would make braking more consistent in all
conditions while not eroding your rims particularly in the wet (think
longevity), and would make removing a wheel with 40 mm tyres easier.

And they'd be noisier, and more complicated to adjust, and easier to damage, and heavier, and the wheels would be weaker and less stiff per weight. They would cost more, too. As for wear, in my observation disc rotors wear out more often than rim sidewalls, and they cost approximately the same as rims too.

LOL, even if new rotors cost the same as new rims, which they don't, a
rim does not equal a wheel. You have to move the hub and all the spokes
to the new rim and true the new wheel. A five minute rotor swap turns
into a multi-hour wheel-build.

There's a place for disc brakes. "Every bike, all the time" isn't it.

Perhaps not every bike, just line not every car. But most bikes would
benefit from disc brakes and they are now included even on many
lower-priced bikes. When a $300 non-department store road bike comes
with disc brakes you know that they've become ubiquitous.

I think that discs may actually be cheaper. First we saw cheap bikes
change from caliper brakes to Vee brakes and now many of them have
switched to discs. And not those expensive $300 bike, just the other
day I saw 7 speed bikes at the super market, selling for 5,000 baht,
about US$ 166.00, with mechanical disc brakes.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:24:00 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/11/2019 7:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:03:58 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:10:51 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/10/2019 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:06:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:25:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:20 PM, James wrote:
On 10/12/19 4:32 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:59 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/8/2019 7:48 PM, James wrote:
On 8/12/19 10:28 am, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was
measured last
Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The
measuring program
didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into
account in
contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange
because most
of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy
day yesterday
so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I
adjusted
by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike.
Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round
trip) to
discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the
shop a
drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show
the
measurements of the position of the shifter on the
handlebar and this
came very close what I measured on my bikes especially
measurement E,
F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct
frame size
taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and
the new
Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my
measurements into
account. My question is what do these measurement programs
exactly
do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these
measurements?


The last bike I bought (gravel) was advertised with a chart
that was scaled to leg length. According to my leg length I
should have chosen an XL frame, but I reviewed the frame
angles and geometry against my custom road racing bike, and
decided on a L size frame. The XL would have had my hands
too high. Even so, with the L frame I have the head stem
all the way down, and I used a longer stem than the supplied
one of course, and I used a longer seat post too.

I also dislike the sloping top tube "compact" design, for
the simple reasons that;

a) longer frame tubes would probably weigh less than a long
seat post, and a longer seat post likely stresses the frame
more.

b) the sloping top tube is very difficult to sit on while
you're stopped somewhere to admire the view and eat a banana.

c) the area in the triangle is reduced which restricts that
available to carry water bottles or frame bags and stuff, if
you so desire.


While bucking current fashion, you are not alone.

The #1 item in custom orders is 'level top tube'.

I wonder why this is the #1 request. Is it people who are invested in
using their old Silca frame pumps?

I suspect it's just aesthetics. And if a person likes it, why not? A
custom bike should accommodate one's quirks.


I identified 3 reasons above that have nothing to do with aesthetics.

Using a frame pump isn't a reason for me, but perhaps for a small group.

The only practical reason I can think for a sloping top tube is
increased stand over clearance, but that has never been a problem for
me. A non-practical reason might be to boast a slightly lesser frame
weight, or stiffness increase perhaps, but these are advertising claims.

I don't disagree with your reasons. But I still bet that for most
people, it's a matter of aesthetics.

You mean two right angle triangles back to back aren't an elegant
sight :-(

That would be a matter of personal taste.

But we're talking about custom bikes here. I'm betting that these days,
the demographic most likely to buy a custom-made bike is a fairly
prosperous middle-aged or older gent who began riding a long, long time
ago. And I'm betting that he (like me) still regards the dream bike of
his youth as the most beautiful.


Well, I am an "older gent" and the bikes of my youth all had a double
top tube and were made by Schwinn
https://bikehistory.org/history/1940-1949.html

Hardly what I think of as ideal today :-)

I don't think this is unusual at all. I suspect that one guy I know (now
in his 50s) still thinks Queen is the greatest music group of all time.
If you go to car shows, you'll see guys in their 80s fawning over cars
from the 1950s.

Heck, one day I took an retired old millwright (from a steel mill) to a
museum documenting our local steel industry. Looking in one display of
tools, he excitedly said "I used a sledge hammer just like that one!!"

Didn't I hear you exclaiming the merits of your slide rule?
--
cheers,

John B.


The world was a big place back then:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/53sports.jpg

still is, actually.

I still remember the first single top tube bicycle I ever saw, It was
a "10 speed English racer", as it was called, and the guy was at a
local filling station trying to figure out how to put air in his tire.
I remember that the consensus opinion of my contemporaries that it
must not be very strong (like our bikes) as it only had a single top
tube.

Those new-fangled single top-tube bicycles will never take off. Dual top
tubes are going to remain the most popular frame type
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/frame-new-atlantis.

Gee! And only $1,500, while Schwinn sells a very similar bike for $129
and with a chain guard too. the Rivendell lacks a chain guard :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Any Schwinn China frameset for $129 is overpriced.

Not a frame, a regular bicycle, with wheels and everything :-)

When we were in Phuket I was sort of the neighborhood "Bike Guy" and
the local kids brought their bikes to me when they broke. Given the
amount of abuse they received I thought that those cheap "super
market" bikes stood up pretty well.
--
cheers,

John B.