A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Frame design influenced by riding positon?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 31st 14, 12:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

John B. -

seat post angles forward of the BB...this allows upper torso leaning forward, thighs backward down to the BB...linear...for running forward on pedals

post backward over BB allows maneuverability around tree stumps with weight on back wheel...maneuver over power. Tho you can stand up n power.

I'll bet EXRX knows if arms are up or down when sitting for abdominal power to thighs.

Ads
  #12  
Old March 31st 14, 07:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:14:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the intended riding position?



1. There is a third consideration, right? In addition to wind resistance and efficiency, there is also ease of breathing, I think, at least for those of us with a belly. I can't hang out on the drops right now cuz I can't breathe! :-(

2. Would handlebar design not have much more to do with riding position than frame design? Old fashioned swept-back bars meet the hands much better and more naturally than a straight bar, right? Yet with the advent of mtn bikes, the former were dropped for the latter. Yielding momentarily to the temptation to put words in Jobst's mouth, I think he would say that this is for economic reasons, straight bars being both easier to manufacture and better selling due to their resemblance to what is being raced. And this trend has done a significant disservice to most of the world's cycling population - all of 'em except mtn bike racers and road riders.

Since the bars are, once fixed to the frame, experienced by the rider as having become a part of the frame itself, I think the answer to the question is a resounding no.

dkl


  #13  
Old March 31st 14, 08:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:30:14 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Besides being more efficient,
upright is also more comfortable.


Really? Maybe this is true for very short rides of a few miles and minutes.. But for long rides of tens or hundreds of miles and many hours, upright is extremely uncomfortable. Being bent over on a diamond frame with some of the weight supported by the arms/hands reduces the weight borne by the rump. Greatly improving comfort.
  #14  
Old March 31st 14, 10:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On 01/04/14 05:46, Doug Landau wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:14:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than
riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at
speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted
upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to
wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the
intended riding position?



1. There is a third consideration, right? In addition to wind
resistance and efficiency, there is also ease of breathing, I think,
at least for those of us with a belly. I can't hang out on the drops
right now cuz I can't breathe! :-(

2. Would handlebar design not have much more to do with riding
position than frame design? Old fashioned swept-back bars meet the
hands much better and more naturally than a straight bar, right? Yet
with the advent of mtn bikes, the former were dropped for the latter.
Yielding momentarily to the temptation to put words in Jobst's mouth,
I think he would say that this is for economic reasons, straight bars
being both easier to manufacture and better selling due to their
resemblance to what is being raced. And this trend has done a
significant disservice to most of the world's cycling population -
all of 'em except mtn bike racers and road riders.

Since the bars are, once fixed to the frame, experienced by the rider
as having become a part of the frame itself, I think the answer to
the question is a resounding no.


I bought a MTB a few years back. The straight bars are ok for riding
off road - really off road that is. But I find the bars particularly
uncomfortable to use on the road. The main reason is that at the width
required to fit all the levers and knobs, the bars set my hands to far
apart.

What I think I need is a narrower flat bar with a skinny centre section,
so that the levers and knobs can be fitted close to the stem, and bar
ends in an integrated fashion, with brake hods and extra brake levers
perhaps.

I haven't quite worked it all out, but it annoys me the way it is.

--
JS

  #15  
Old April 1st 14, 12:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

straight bars yield turning torque n control...and fewer broken wrists.

the arm to abdomen to glutes/thighs power is.....in the TdF position close to the body.

so practice pedaling leaning forward out o the saddle.
  #16  
Old April 1st 14, 01:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 08:58:34 +1100, James
wrote:

On 01/04/14 05:46, Doug Landau wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:14:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than
riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at
speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted
upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to
wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the
intended riding position?



1. There is a third consideration, right? In addition to wind
resistance and efficiency, there is also ease of breathing, I think,
at least for those of us with a belly. I can't hang out on the drops
right now cuz I can't breathe! :-(

2. Would handlebar design not have much more to do with riding
position than frame design? Old fashioned swept-back bars meet the
hands much better and more naturally than a straight bar, right? Yet
with the advent of mtn bikes, the former were dropped for the latter.
Yielding momentarily to the temptation to put words in Jobst's mouth,
I think he would say that this is for economic reasons, straight bars
being both easier to manufacture and better selling due to their
resemblance to what is being raced. And this trend has done a
significant disservice to most of the world's cycling population -
all of 'em except mtn bike racers and road riders.

Since the bars are, once fixed to the frame, experienced by the rider
as having become a part of the frame itself, I think the answer to
the question is a resounding no.


I bought a MTB a few years back. The straight bars are ok for riding
off road - really off road that is. But I find the bars particularly
uncomfortable to use on the road. The main reason is that at the width
required to fit all the levers and knobs, the bars set my hands to far
apart.

What I think I need is a narrower flat bar with a skinny centre section,
so that the levers and knobs can be fitted close to the stem, and bar
ends in an integrated fashion, with brake hods and extra brake levers
perhaps.

I haven't quite worked it all out, but it annoys me the way it is.


I did the exact same thing. I even tried a set of "cow horn", or what
ever you call them, bars - cut most of the dropped section off an old
set of road bars and mount them up side down. I ended up using bar end
shifters in a set of road bars.

The straight bars seemed to cause arm wrist and hand pain while the
change in orientation of the hands on the road bars does not.
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #17  
Old April 1st 14, 01:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Monday, March 31, 2014 8:09:24 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 08:58:34 +1100, James

wrote:



On 01/04/14 05:46, Doug Landau wrote:


On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:14:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than


riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at


speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted


upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to


wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the


intended riding position?






1. There is a third consideration, right? In addition to wind


resistance and efficiency, there is also ease of breathing, I think,


at least for those of us with a belly. I can't hang out on the drops


right now cuz I can't breathe! :-(




2. Would handlebar design not have much more to do with riding


position than frame design? Old fashioned swept-back bars meet the


hands much better and more naturally than a straight bar, right? Yet


with the advent of mtn bikes, the former were dropped for the latter.


Yielding momentarily to the temptation to put words in Jobst's mouth,


I think he would say that this is for economic reasons, straight bars


being both easier to manufacture and better selling due to their


resemblance to what is being raced. And this trend has done a


significant disservice to most of the world's cycling population -


all of 'em except mtn bike racers and road riders.




Since the bars are, once fixed to the frame, experienced by the rider


as having become a part of the frame itself, I think the answer to


the question is a resounding no.






I bought a MTB a few years back. The straight bars are ok for riding


off road - really off road that is. But I find the bars particularly


uncomfortable to use on the road. The main reason is that at the width


required to fit all the levers and knobs, the bars set my hands to far


apart.




What I think I need is a narrower flat bar with a skinny centre section,


so that the levers and knobs can be fitted close to the stem, and bar


ends in an integrated fashion, with brake hods and extra brake levers


perhaps.




I haven't quite worked it all out, but it annoys me the way it is.




I did the exact same thing. I even tried a set of "cow horn", or what

ever you call them, bars - cut most of the dropped section off an old

set of road bars and mount them up side down. I ended up using bar end

shifters in a set of road bars.



The straight bars seemed to cause arm wrist and hand pain while the

change in orientation of the hands on the road bars does not.

--

Cheers,



John B.


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


No, you're doing apples and pears. bars were developd from need then produced as useful to a particular groups use in a specific way. Here you're not moving around in rougher terrain stimulating muscles and hand circulation nor are you used to or trained into that area.
  #18  
Old April 1st 14, 02:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On 3/31/2014 5:58 PM, James wrote:

I bought a MTB a few years back. The straight bars are ok for riding
off road - really off road that is. But I find the bars particularly
uncomfortable to use on the road. The main reason is that at the width
required to fit all the levers and knobs, the bars set my hands to far
apart.

What I think I need is a narrower flat bar with a skinny centre section,
so that the levers and knobs can be fitted close to the stem, and bar
ends in an integrated fashion, with brake hods and extra brake levers
perhaps.

I haven't quite worked it all out, but it annoys me the way it is.


I find those super-wide bars irritating, too. Not only for comfort, but
because our nearby woods are quite dense. When I got my first mountain
bike, I was having to be very careful that the bars didn't get hooked on
trees & shrubs alongside the single track trails.

A few minutes with a hacksaw made things much better; but those bars had
none of the modern bulges, so inward space wasn't a big problem.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old April 1st 14, 12:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Frame design influenced by riding positon?

On Monday, March 31, 2014 5:58:34 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 01/04/14 05:46, Doug Landau wrote:

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 5:14:03 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


Read somewhere recently that riding upright is more efficient than


riding bent over but riding bent over is better in the wind or at


speeds where perceived wind is a factor due to the force exerted


upon a less aerodynamic upright riding position. That got me to


wondering. Are bicycle frame designs influenced much by the


intended riding position?






1. There is a third consideration, right? In addition to wind


resistance and efficiency, there is also ease of breathing, I think,


at least for those of us with a belly. I can't hang out on the drops


right now cuz I can't breathe! :-(




2. Would handlebar design not have much more to do with riding


position than frame design? Old fashioned swept-back bars meet the


hands much better and more naturally than a straight bar, right? Yet


with the advent of mtn bikes, the former were dropped for the latter.


Yielding momentarily to the temptation to put words in Jobst's mouth,


I think he would say that this is for economic reasons, straight bars


being both easier to manufacture and better selling due to their


resemblance to what is being raced. And this trend has done a


significant disservice to most of the world's cycling population -


all of 'em except mtn bike racers and road riders.




Since the bars are, once fixed to the frame, experienced by the rider


as having become a part of the frame itself, I think the answer to


the question is a resounding no.






I bought a MTB a few years back. The straight bars are ok for riding

off road - really off road that is. But I find the bars particularly

uncomfortable to use on the road. The main reason is that at the width

required to fit all the levers and knobs, the bars set my hands to far

apart.



What I think I need is a narrower flat bar with a skinny centre section,

so that the levers and knobs can be fitted close to the stem, and bar

ends in an integrated fashion, with brake hods and extra brake levers

perhaps.



I haven't quite worked it all out, but it annoys me the way it is.



--

JS


I used a tubing cutter to take about three inches off of each side of the straight bars on my MTB come "pick em up and grocery" bike. Makes it much easier to switch from road bike to that bike in ters of comfort due to spacing of hands and is a fair bit more aero too and is also a lot easier to get through doorways.

Cheers
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
China's economy influenced by worldwide financial crisis [email protected] General 3 November 25th 08 12:07 AM
Can an arbitrator allow himself to be influenced by history not presented as evidence? RonSonic Racing 3 May 26th 07 04:45 PM
Very odd frame design Werehatrack Techniques 5 October 19th 06 09:20 PM
A Frame Design. Evan Byrne Unicycling 51 April 26th 05 09:38 AM
Frame design peter.kidwell Techniques 3 November 16th 04 03:54 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.