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#291
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:42:24 -0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: As I previously said, if one has a bike one doesn't need a car :-) I'm not the "one" that can do it. I've previously mentioned my attempts to do service calls on my bicycle. The technical problems were easy. The stupid problem (strange bus transport rules, unattended security, parts thieves, and potential damage to electronics going over bumps) were not so easy. I live about 1 mile from the main highway up a mostly paved road. Checking Google Earth, there is an elevation rise of 465 ft. Average slope is therefo 465 / 5280 = 8.8% I can barely ride a bicycle up the hill. I find myself walking quite often. I could not even imagine climbing the hill with a trailer full of groceries, much less hauling a refrigerator (250-350 lbs). To be fair, 50 years ago, I might have been able to do it, but not today. It might be possible to survive without a car if the roads were all flat, but in my area, very little is flat. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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#292
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:15:39 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:42:24 -0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: As I previously said, if one has a bike one doesn't need a car :-) I'm not the "one" that can do it. I've previously mentioned my attempts to do service calls on my bicycle. The technical problems were easy. The stupid problem (strange bus transport rules, unattended security, parts thieves, and potential damage to electronics going over bumps) were not so easy. I live about 1 mile from the main highway up a mostly paved road. Checking Google Earth, there is an elevation rise of 465 ft. Average slope is therefo 465 / 5280 = 8.8% I can barely ride a bicycle up the hill. I find myself walking quite often. I could not even imagine climbing the hill with a trailer full of groceries, much less hauling a refrigerator (250-350 lbs). To be fair, 50 years ago, I might have been able to do it, but not today. It might be possible to survive without a car if the roads were all flat, but in my area, very little is flat. Correction: "As I previously said, if one has [an e-]bike one doesn't need a car :-)" John B. is just baiting Joerg anyway. It's all about being the rugged individualist in a suburban California golf course community and surviving on two wheels while the rest of the world drives a car, etc., etc. (fill in stories of gnarly trails, mountain lions and beer). I've never seen any foreigner so take to the Western myth. I'm rouging it on the 9th hole! Or I'm in the rough -- one of those things. Circle the golf carts! -- Jay Beattie. |
#293
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Making America into Amsterdam
AMuzi writes:
Viet Minh moved mountain guns (designed for mule transport) up mountains on jungle paths with bicycles. While nobody can take that away from them, one has to wonder how much transport in today's Vietnam is carried out on bicycles, and what the social status is of doing that compared to the use of motor vehicles in the eyes of the common Vietnamese? China for example, once the bicycle country number one in the world, I think today it is only used by them not being able to afford to do it otherwise. The public health, accident toll, and environment impact of this paradigm shift isn't clear to a lot of people - because of the smog. -- underground experts exiled http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#294
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 2018-07-24 12:33, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi writes: Viet Minh moved mountain guns (designed for mule transport) up mountains on jungle paths with bicycles. While nobody can take that away from them, one has to wonder how much transport in today's Vietnam is carried out on bicycles, and what the social status is of doing that compared to the use of motor vehicles in the eyes of the common Vietnamese? Not many bicycles left: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33DbB2YjbiM China for example, once the bicycle country number one in the world, I think today it is only used by them not being able to afford to do it otherwise. The public health, accident toll, and environment impact of this paradigm shift isn't clear to a lot of people - because of the smog. The young invincible ones never think about that. After all, lung cancer can't happen to them. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#295
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:01:59 -0400, Duane
wrote: On 23/07/2018 9:07 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:56:02 -0400, Duane snip We'll see what happens. Last year they added the 1 or 1.5m passing rule and increased fines for dooring. But as far as I can determine, no one has been fined for these things. I read about the 1 M (1.5 M) rule but has anyone been convicted under that law? Unless one either has measuring sticks mounted on the vehicle (Or rider) or wants to accept a by-stander's estimate, I can't see how the law can be enforced. Didn't I just say that no one has been fined? As far a enforcement, it's pretty easy IMO. The guy that passed me 2" from my elbow in plain sight of the cop was obviously in violation. The idea that you need to know the exact distance is a red herring. It's the close passes that concern most people. Not whether it was 970 cm or 1.0 meters. I suggest that if your law says "1 meter" or "3 feet" the law will be interpreted as such. Not "well officer, it was about awful close". At least that was what happened soon after "radar guns" became popular. Some bloke in Long Island, or thereabouts, demonstrated to the court that the tuning procedures used by the police was incorrect. All the convictions to date were appealed and chucked out the window :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#296
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Making America into Amsterdam
John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:01:59 -0400, Duane wrote: On 23/07/2018 9:07 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:56:02 -0400, Duane snip We'll see what happens. Last year they added the 1 or 1.5m passing rule and increased fines for dooring. But as far as I can determine, no one has been fined for these things. I read about the 1 M (1.5 M) rule but has anyone been convicted under that law? Unless one either has measuring sticks mounted on the vehicle (Or rider) or wants to accept a by-stander's estimate, I can't see how the law can be enforced. Didn't I just say that no one has been fined? As far a enforcement, it's pretty easy IMO. The guy that passed me 2" from my elbow in plain sight of the cop was obviously in violation. The idea that you need to know the exact distance is a red herring. It's the close passes that concern most people. Not whether it was 970 cm or 1.0 meters. I suggest that if your law says "1 meter" or "3 feet" the law will be interpreted as such. Not "well officer, it was about awful close". At least that was what happened soon after "radar guns" became popular. Some bloke in Long Island, or thereabouts, demonstrated to the court that the tuning procedures used by the police was incorrect. All the convictions to date were appealed and chucked out the window :-) -- Cheers, John B. Cops have cameras here. It’s less a question about making it stick and more a question of the will to give a damn in my opinion. -- duane |
#297
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/24/2018 5:50 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-24 12:33, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi writes: Viet Minh moved mountain guns (designed for mule transport) up mountains on jungle paths with bicycles. While nobody can take that away from them, one has to wonder how much transport in today's Vietnam is carried out on bicycles, and what the social status is of doing that compared to the use of motor vehicles in the eyes of the common Vietnamese? Not many bicycles left: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33DbB2YjbiM I've read in several different places that as soon as people in any country get enough money, they want motorized transport. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#298
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:00:30 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2018 8:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:13:21 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 21:44, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 20:32:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/22/2018 5:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: In defense of rail-trails -- I've now cut-out most of the road riding through east Multnomah County, which the ****ty mullet region of Portland. I use two rail-trail MUPs, the Springwater Corridor and the Gresham-Fairview Trail. I ride the last two or three miles on surface streets, and then over the Stark Street Bridge and on to the scenic highway. http://columbiariverhighway.com/wp-c...ridge-2013.jpg The Gresham-Fairview trail is one of those "if you build it, they won't come" trails. You feel like you're in a scene from Omega Man -- nobody around, just me and the trail, which is kind of nice but not terribly cost-effective. There's one rail-trail I use on my favorite local ride, to a city about 20 miles away. It's a trail along the river on a former inter-urban street car right of way, built entirely by private donation. It has pretty views of the river, it bypasses some choppy steep hills, and it's not uncommon for me see no other trail users on the 7 miles of it that I use. Yep, I like nice trails that have nobody on them - but how do you justify spending tax money on those? And lest we Stephen's and Joerg's deflection and dissembling cause someone to forget: My claim is that almost all U.S. bike trails are used almost entirely for recreation. They are really linear parks, with almost all users arriving and leaving by car. Yes, I've seen bike commuters using trails in (e.g.) Washington DC and Columbus Ohio. But there and elsewhere, I saw far, far more people who were just cruising for fun or exercise. I wasn't restricting my discussion to urban trails, as they seem to be. I'm talking about most bike trails. I gave data to back up my assertion, covering 20 trails in two states. If S & J have rebutting data for a representative sample of California bike trails - NOT just cherry picked paths into Apple - they should post it. But, I wonder. Isn't most bike riding primarily recreation. I'm sure it is, at least here. When I lived in the Netherlands it sure wasn't. For me, now in the US, it is partially for sports and training (not so much recreation) but there are also plenty of utility rides. Like the ride today. In Bangkok, because of the traffic I ride really in the morning, about the time that a bloke might be setting off for the office and I do, occasionally see people that seem heading for work, but I see far more that just seem out for a ride. Now, I am aware that there are individuals who have and do ride to work but I would also have to say that an anomaly doesn't necessarily prove a point. The fact that a certain number of people up in the N.W. corner of the U.S. enjoy riding in the rain (they must the only times I have ever been in the Sea-Tac area it rained) isn't necessarily proof positive that an equal number of folks are riding to work in Nome, Alaska, or Dry Prong, Louisiana. Now, I am aware that people do ride a bicycle to the shop to get a can of beans but these same people have one or two cars in the garage. We do have two cars in the garage. Each sees around 1000mi/year. I assume you can guess why those numbers are so low, mine used to be much higher. Before feeling too virtuous have a look at the Bayley's pages. they ride between 10,000 and 14,000 (Pamela) or 17,000 (John) miles annually and apparently have never owned a car. If the bicycles are for work, what are the cars for? Have you ever tried to haul half a ton of wood pellets, firewood, construction lumber and whatnot on a bicycle, uphill? With uphill I mean some serious hills. Why ever not? Small loads and many trips, just as you would if you were walking. The argument, "OH! It is too big for my bike", is just that an argument for using the car. And before anyone argues "I gotta have a car" I remind you that Frank, and undoubtedly many others, have ridden from one side of the country to the other... on a bicycle. Good Lord, Lewis and Clark walked! I need a car indeed. That depends on your transportation needs. I even carry machine parts to clients via bicycle. However, if they are too large or heavy I use the SUV. Yet, some years ago someone - maybe Andrew - posted a photo of someone hauling his new fridge home on a trailer, behind his bicycle. Are your large and heavy parts larger then a household refrigerator? I've seen farmers in Indonesia hauling 400 Kg. on a bicycle. Do your parts weigh more then 400 kg? This is not a black and white matter. It makes sense to have different kinds of vehicles but to prefer the ones that improve personal fitness and are better for the environment where possible. "Possible" is the salient word here. Viet Minh moved mountain guns (designed for mule transport) up mountains on jungle paths with bicycles. While that is likely it hardly describes the Viet Minh logistics system accurately. When the Dien Bien Phu Siege opened the Viets had some 100,000 "transportation workers" at the battle site and some 400 trucks. In contrast, a good friend (5th Special Forces) was out in the bush supposedly interdicting the so called "Ho Chi Minh Trail" required helicopter re supply about once a week while the Viets who were using the trail required no re supply as they were carrying it all on their back.... all the way from N. Vietnam. -- Cheers, John B. |
#299
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:33:31 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: AMuzi writes: Viet Minh moved mountain guns (designed for mule transport) up mountains on jungle paths with bicycles. While nobody can take that away from them, one has to wonder how much transport in today's Vietnam is carried out on bicycles, and what the social status is of doing that compared to the use of motor vehicles in the eyes of the common Vietnamese? Considerably less :-) A process I've observed in every developing country in S.E.A. is the transportation cycle. Initially people walked and carried their goods, whether in their arms or with carrying poles. As the economy improves people buy bicycle and can carry more. A bit more increase and they buy a small motorcycle and finally a truck. As for social status. Depending on the phase of the development those who own a bicycle, motorcycle, small truck, are seen as "rich people" and in an Asian country that is the only description necessary. China for example, once the bicycle country number one in the world, I think today it is only used by them not being able to afford to do it otherwise. The public health, accident toll, and environment impact of this paradigm shift isn't clear to a lot of people - because of the smog. -- Cheers, John B. |
#300
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:41:08 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-07-23 18:27, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:13:21 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 21:44, John B. Slocomb wrote: [...] In Bangkok, because of the traffic I ride really in the morning, about the time that a bloke might be setting off for the office and I do, occasionally see people that seem heading for work, but I see far more that just seem out for a ride. Now, I am aware that there are individuals who have and do ride to work but I would also have to say that an anomaly doesn't necessarily prove a point. The fact that a certain number of people up in the N.W. corner of the U.S. enjoy riding in the rain (they must the only times I have ever been in the Sea-Tac area it rained) isn't necessarily proof positive that an equal number of folks are riding to work in Nome, Alaska, or Dry Prong, Louisiana. Now, I am aware that people do ride a bicycle to the shop to get a can of beans but these same people have one or two cars in the garage. We do have two cars in the garage. Each sees around 1000mi/year. I assume you can guess why those numbers are so low, mine used to be much higher. Before feeling too virtuous have a look at the Bayley's pages. they ride between 10,000 and 14,000 (Pamela) or 17,000 (John) miles annually and apparently have never owned a car. If you have everything big delivered that's possible. However, then you must count the miles and environmental impact of all the delivery vehicles. If the bicycles are for work, what are the cars for? Have you ever tried to haul half a ton of wood pellets, firewood, construction lumber and whatnot on a bicycle, uphill? With uphill I mean some serious hills. Why ever not? Small loads and many trips, just as you would if you were walking. The argument, "OH! It is too big for my bike", is just that an argument for using the car. Obviously you have never hauled four cords of firewood from a location that is 1400ft lower than where you live. That's eight tons. Quite the opposite. I spent much of my second career transporting stuff through jungles, up and down hills and through swamps. I'm quite aware of the effort of moving tons of machinery and equipment up and down hills. Or just 30 bags of pellets at 50lbs each. Yeah, you could make 30 trips while sweating profusely. However, some of us still need to work and earn money. You make my point exactly. You could haul the pellets but it would take a lot of trips and you'd rather use the car. Or in other words, you didn't need the car, it was a convenience. And before anyone argues "I gotta have a car" I remind you that Frank, and undoubtedly many others, have ridden from one side of the country to the other... on a bicycle. Good Lord, Lewis and Clark walked! I need a car indeed. That depends on your transportation needs. I even carry machine parts to clients via bicycle. However, if they are too large or heavy I use the SUV. Yet, some years ago someone - maybe Andrew - posted a photo of someone hauling his new fridge home on a trailer, behind his bicycle. Are your large and heavy parts larger then a household refrigerator? I've seen farmers in Indonesia hauling 400 Kg. on a bicycle. Do your parts weigh more then 400 kg? I have hauled a bed that couldn't be disassembled, together with a friend, using two road bikes. We got into a discussion with the authorities at the border from Germany to the Netherlands. They didn't want to let us ride on. A wee problem out here is that this would cause a major traffic jam on a throroughfare. Upon which a sheriff's deputy would show up. [...] -- Cheers, John B. |
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