Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:02:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.

Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose.

Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less.

I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book.

I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season.

Unlike you, I pay my own medical insurance premium and have done so for over 20 years -- and I'm not talking about a nickel-and-dime Medigap or Advantage plan. I'm talking big premiums -- more than I paid for my son's annual tuition at University of Utah. Repealing ACA won't reduce the premiums for my type of coverage and, according to the CBO, it will drive them up by 40%. The market is clearly broken.

I am using my own private medical insurance since it was cheaper than the insurance to cover the medicare gap. And it is only about $1,500 a year or perhaps slightly more. And I have received no complaints or rising rates despite this last year costing them over $15,000. It is unlikely that I will have any medical bills for many years except for my 9 month inspection from my neurologist and the twice a year from my GP.

You have a Medicare Advantage plan which, by the way, is much like the insurance scheme for everyone in Germany and (sort of) Japan. The bulk of premium is paid by the government with a "spread" paid by the policy holder. The typical Advantage plan in Oregon has better benefits than most employer-provided group plans. It also sweeps in Coverage D and provides a good pharmacy benefit.

But its socialized insurance. The employed and self-employed (me) are paying the lion's share of your "premium."

See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...ow-it-financed

The way Medicare Advantage works is that CMS pays a capitated fee to the HMO/PPO based on a "benchmark" for your county, and your HMO/PPO charges you the spread to cover the cost of estimated plan benefits (so called "bid"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Advantage The benchmark number varies, but yours is probably in the $800-900 range -- meaning your "true" premium is subsidized to the tune of $800-900 per month. That's socialized insurance. YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, COMRADE!

Time to turn in your teabag. Why should I pay for YOUR insurance? I'm going to quit paying my self-employment tax so I don't have to pay for YOUR insurance!


-- Jay Beattie.