Shimano (and others) OEM component stream...

ajames- Ten years ago it was possible by buying small lots of naked
frames for a larger sized retail store to get OEM pricing from
Shimano (and others). There did not really seem to be any firm
check that the number of component groups matched the number of
frames. Some component makers (Pulstar and Rock-Shox spring to
mind) made slightly inferior versions of their retail product for
the OEM stream.


How have things changed in the last few years? Has it become
harder to get OEM pricing? I see far fewer obviously OEM
components for sale lately..
...just wondering BRBR

Recently shimano has publically stated that it will try to control OEM resale
to MO, because in their words, smaller bike shops have reduced their support of
shimano products. One way they are attempting to do this is to have shimano
stuff be resold only in their boxes, whereas OEM receives stuff not in boxes so
if a MO place has a bunch of shimano in plastic bags, it is resold OEM...BUT I
find it unlikely that shimano will go to TREK, for instance, and spank their
hand for selling 1500 ultegra groups to MO outlets. I just don't see any teeth
in this shimano policy. A DA rear der still sells in MO for about $65-$69 and
it still cost me about $55. MO sells using the same or similar margin as
me...They just pay less.

You can still as a frame maker get a OEM 'deal' from shimano...VERY attractive,
one wonders if they are selling close to or below their cost, just to get
shimano onto bikes...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 15 Jul 2003 13:20:13 GMT, (Qui si parla
Campagnolo) wrote:

..just wondering BRBR

Recently shimano has publically stated that it will try to control OEM resale
to MO, because in their words, smaller bike shops have reduced their support of
shimano products. One way they are attempting to do this is to have shimano
stuff be resold only in their boxes, whereas OEM receives stuff not in boxes so
if a MO place has a bunch of shimano in plastic bags, it is resold OEM...BUT I
find it unlikely that shimano will go to TREK, for instance, and spank their
hand for selling 1500 ultegra groups to MO outlets. I just don't see any teeth
in this shimano policy. A DA rear der still sells in MO for about $65-$69 and
it still cost me about $55. MO sells using the same or similar margin as
me...They just pay less.

You can still as a frame maker get a OEM 'deal' from shimano...VERY attractive,
one wonders if they are selling close to or below their cost, just to get
shimano onto bikes...

Thanks...
FWIW when I had my shop the OEM deal (for MTB components) was
rumored to be around 60% off the regular whole-sale price ..

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:


I just don't see any teeth
in this shimano policy.

Then that ought to tell you just how much they really value the small shop supply chain: they don't. If you
can't get the "policy" in writing (so you can have *some* chance of successfully suing them), then it and 50
cents will get you a cup of coffee.


You can still as a frame maker get a OEM 'deal' from shimano...VERY attractive,

Then *do it*, or buy from the same "OEM resale" as the MO outfits buy from.


one wonders if they are selling close to or below their cost, just to get
shimano onto bikes...

Every corp would like to dominate markets if they could, but they can't "dump" forever, because they'll go
broke if they do -- since dumping by definition is selling at a loss to obtain *some* market share, or even
dominate if possible. There is no question Shimano is making an overall profit since they would otherwise
have been selling at a loss for what... around 15 years or more?

And why would you care if they were selling at "near cost?" This is pretty funny: most folks complain because
corps try to profit too much (the dreaded "corporate greed"); you complain that Shimano is trying to profit
too little. Sounds like a good deal to me (for me).

So just to get it straight: you complain because Shimano is using their marketplace dominance to sell stuff at
low profit margins. What a horrible world we live in, hah hah. In that case, I wish every large corp was as
evil as Shimano.

Funny stuff Peter, funny funny stuff.

barking- Then that ought to tell you just how much they really value the
small shop supply chain: they don't. If you
can't get the "policy" in writing (so you can have *some* chance of
successfully suing them), then it and 50
cents will get you a cup of coffee.
BRBR

It has been published in writing and I have a copy..

You can still as a frame maker get a OEM 'deal' from shimano...VERY
attractive,

Then *do it*, or buy from the same "OEM resale" as the MO outfits buy from.
BRBR

I don't manufacture framesets and I don't have the assets to buy 2500 ultegra
groups...They just hanfg up when I say I want 3 groups...

Every corp would like to dominate markets if they could, but they can't
"dump" forever, because they'll go
broke if they do -- since dumping by definition is selling at a loss to obtain
*some* market share, or even
dominate if possible. BRBR

Most of the money shimano makes is on the very low end, Pacific type bikes.
Road in general and DA/ultefgra specifically is a tiny sliver of their sales.

you complain that Shimano is trying to profit
too little. Sounds like a good deal to me (for me). BRBR

No doubt(for me)-

So just to get it straight: you complain because Shimano is using their
marketplace dominance to sell stuff at
low profit margins. What a horrible world we live in, hah hah. In that case,
I wish every large corp was as
evil as Shimano. BRBR

You have gotten very little straight at all...You take small parts of this
conversation, add some little 'witty' things and stand back and say things
like- Funny stuff Peter, funny funny stuff. BRBR

Start a small retail business...any one you care to try, try it for say 12-18
months, get back to me...


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

snip
Recently shimano has publically stated that it will try to control OEM resale
to MO, because in their words, smaller bike shops have reduced their support of
shimano products. One way they are attempting to do this is to have shimano
stuff be resold only in their boxes, whereas OEM receives stuff not in boxes so
if a MO place has a bunch of shimano in plastic bags, it is resold OEM...BUT I
find it unlikely that shimano will go to TREK, for instance, and spank their
hand for selling 1500 ultegra groups to MO outlets. I just don't see any teeth
in this shimano policy.

Isn't the fact that Shimano has designated only six official online
dealers a sign that they're serious about this? See
www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html If anyone sells Shimano
stuff online and isn't one of those six, then Shimano will know it's
greymarket and can take action. I'm not saying they will....

Is this new policy going to prevent Sheldon from selling Shimano stuff
over the Harris website? It would be a shame if they hurt one of their
biggest boosters.

(Gary Young) wrote:

Isn't the fact that Shimano has designated only six official online
dealers a sign that they're serious about this? See
www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html If anyone sells Shimano
stuff online and isn't one of those six, then Shimano will know it's
greymarket and can take action. I'm not saying they will....

Is this new policy going to prevent Sheldon from selling Shimano stuff
over the Harris website? It would be a shame if they hurt one of their
biggest boosters.

You don't think they give a s**t about Sheldon any more than they do
about the rest of us, do you? He doesn't order thousands of gruppos
either.

It's easy to build a bike without a speck of their junk on it; I've
been doing so for years. I had made an exception of late for their
11-34 7-speed freewheel, but now I have yet another reason to
reconsider that exception.

Just say no to Shimano's aftermarket parts. Let them make low-margin
components for OEM bikes-- those parts are apt to be junk in any case.
Any enthusiast with enough wits about him to spec his own machine can
and should avoid Shimano.

Chalo Colina

gary- Isn't the fact that Shimano has designated only six official online
dealers a sign that they're serious about this? BRBR

There is no doubt that shimano is serious about it but time will tell..and
prices at mailorder...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article ,
Gary Young wrote:
Isn't the fact that Shimano has designated only six official online
dealers a sign that they're serious about this? See
www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html If anyone sells Shimano
stuff online and isn't one of those six, then Shimano will know it's
greymarket and can take action. I'm not saying they will....

Anyone know who the "six" are?


--
Mike Iglesias Email:
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

Mike Iglesias wrote:
In article , Gary Young
wrote:
Isn't the fact that Shimano has designated only six official online
dealers a sign that they're serious about this? See
www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html If anyone sells Shimano
stuff online and isn't one of those six, then Shimano will know it's
greymarket and can take action. I'm not saying they will....
Anyone know who the "six" are?
--
Mike Iglesias Email: University of
California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926 Network & Academic Computing
Services FAX: 949-824-2069



Unofficially: Performance Nashbar Supergo Colorado Cyclist Excel Sports
Boulder REI

(Note that Performance owns Nashbar and Supergo - could be some serious
market manipulation there).



--
Check out my bike blog!

http://diabloscott.blogspot.com

--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Werehatrack wrote:

On 17 Jul 2003 17:30:03 -0700, (Chalo) may
have said:

Any enthusiast with enough wits about him to spec his own machine can
and should avoid Shimano.

Unless that's all that fits in the budget. Not everyone can even
afford new, let alone really good new.

A fair point. Actually I find that it's a bit easier to build a
quality non-Shimano bike out of pre-8-speed parts than out of new
parts, because of Shimano's growing domination of the market.

I suppose that the strength and virtue of Shimano parts from a
consumer standpoint is that they may be the cheapest means for a rider
of average needs to build a reliable, functional daily use bike. If
budget is the decisive factor, a less-fashionable grade of Shimano
drivetrain may be the best route. (If Sunrace decide to pay more
attention to the retail aftermarket, that could could change in a
jiffy.)

I don't usually see folks building up their own bikes when cost
effectiveness is paramount, though. More often there is a confluence
of experimentation, self-expression, and bike lust that serves as the
motivating force. All those elements are best fulfilled by working
around, rather than with, Shimano parts.

Chalo Colina