Serotta Legend TI w/ pivoting seat stays?

Serotta offers a pivoting carbon seat stays as an option on several of
their Ti frames which is supposed to provide some suspension travel.
My wife will be ordering a new Serotta soon and would like to hear
some opinions for or against this option. Has anyone here owned or
ridden a Serotta with this feature?

Thanks,
Bret

On 16 Jul 2003 20:05:55 -0700, (Chalo) may
have said:

... I have seen many such "features" come and go.
[much snippage]

Now, where did I put those waders? They were right here a minute
ago...

[Priceless bit, by the way; simply priceless.]

---
My email address is antispammed;
pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.

Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.

Chalo wrote:
(Bret Wade) wrote:


Serotta offers a pivoting carbon seat stays as an option on several of
their Ti frames which is supposed to provide some suspension travel.
My wife will be ordering a new Serotta soon and would like to hear
some opinions for or against this option. Has anyone here owned or
ridden a Serotta with this feature?


No, but I have seen many such "features" come and go.

If your wife *truly believes* in the Fixed Pivot, it will reward her
faith by granting her a miraculously cushy yet super-efficient ride.
From her magical perch she will behold the legions of nonbelievers
with their primitive fixed non-pivoted rear triangles and know that
they are ignorant savages. She will effortlessly speed by them and
scoff with derision. Other riders will weep with frustration at her
astounding, unbeatable speed and overall superiority.

OTOH, if she fails to believe in the Fixed Pivot with all her heart,
then not only will her ride be as harsh, slow, and tiring as that of a
normal titanium and plastic bike, but she will have added a useless
wear item to her bike and paid a premium to do so. Cartridge bearing
mites will mercilessly gnaw upon the races of her hubristic jointed
dropouts, causing them to click and creak. Children will flee from
the noise of her approach. Dogs will relieve themselves on her
once-proud bicycle. She will be finished as a cyclist, disgraced.

However, if your wife should buy a carefully made bike of
time-honored, proven design and materials, then she will be able to
call upon the collective faith of all those riders who came before her
and believed in their simple, sturdy mounts, which did not fail them.
She will retain the modest dignity of a rider who does not subscribe
to expensive extravagances and tawdry gimmicks, but is guided by good
taste and well-refined technology.

Then, she and her bike will surely live happily ever after.

Chalo Colina

Hi Chalo,

You assume much and know little about this situation. We're not
particularly interested in anyones personal bike frame philosophy. We
would simply like to know if anyone has experience with this particular
frame feature and has an opinion on it?

Thanks,
Bret

"RoyG" royg at nospam wrote in message
...
For a different perspective Bret, you might want to go to the Serotta
Message Board - go to www.serotta.com and click on the link at top right
of
page. You can search or post a new message. Board has been down for last
day but it should be back up soon.

This is the first sensible answer given to the OP.

Bret- Serotta offers a pivoting carbon seat stays as an option on several of
their Ti frames which is supposed to provide some suspension travel.
My wife will be ordering a new Serotta soon and would like to hear
some opinions for or against this option. Has anyone here owned or
ridden a Serotta with this feature? BRBR

You are in CO, yes? I think Wheatridge has one of these, I would recommend she
go ride it and then a 'hard tail'...I think she will like the hardtail more.

Where is she going to get the Serotta??

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Bret- Serotta offers a pivoting carbon seat stays as an option on several of
their Ti frames which is supposed to provide some suspension travel.
My wife will be ordering a new Serotta soon and would like to hear
some opinions for or against this option. Has anyone here owned or
ridden a Serotta with this feature? BRBR

You are in CO, yes? I think Wheatridge has one of these, I would recommend she
go ride it and then a 'hard tail'...I think she will like the hardtail more.

Where is she going to get the Serotta??

Hi Peter,

Yes, we're working with Wheatridge on this. Lisa's going down to get a
fitting next week. We are leaning towards the hardtail, but wanted to
gather some information first before we reject the other options.
Lisa's been on Serottas since '90 (Le Peep - Morgul Bismark team
bikes) and won't have anything else.

Thanks,
Bret

(Bret Wade) wrote in message m...
Serotta offers a pivoting carbon seat stays as an option on several of
their Ti frames which is supposed to provide some suspension travel.
My wife will be ordering a new Serotta soon and would like to hear
some opinions for or against this option. Has anyone here owned or
ridden a Serotta with this feature?

Thanks,
Bret

Carbon rear ends are bolted at the drop outs on many bikes, replacing
the bolts with pivots is simple. The carbon rear lowers the cost of
production by replacing four welded joints with one. Raising the brake
bridges to accomodate a wider range of tires would be a more useful
solution, but you'd lose the marketing advantage of the carbon rear
and carbon fork.

"Dave Thompson" wrote:

"RoyG" royg at nospam wrote:

For a different perspective Bret, you might want to go to the Serotta
Message Board - go to www.serotta.com

This is the first sensible answer given to the OP.

What, to go solicit feedback from the suckers who were taken in enough
to buy it? That doesn't sound sensible to me. It's like asking a
group of people wearing foil hats whether their hats work to keep out
the transmissions.

Chalo Colina

"Chalo" wrote in message
om...
"Dave Thompson" wrote:

"RoyG" royg at nospam wrote:

For a different perspective Bret, you might want to go to the Serotta
Message Board - go to www.serotta.com

This is the first sensible answer given to the OP.

What, to go solicit feedback from the suckers who were taken in enough
to buy it? That doesn't sound sensible to me. It's like asking a
group of people wearing foil hats whether their hats work to keep out
the transmissions.

Chalo Colina

Who made you the god of replies? Who else is better to comment on the
validity of something, other than the people who have researched and
purchased a product? I could state, with equal ease, that you're the sucker
for NOT buying it if the product works like it's supposed to.

Chalo wrote:

Bret Wade wrote:


We're not
particularly interested in anyones personal bike frame philosophy.
We
would simply like to know if anyone has experience with this
particular
frame feature and has an opinion on it?


My professional opinion as a machine designer is that you don't put
rolling element bearings in a place where there is no rotation.
Repeated loads applied to a bearing without rotation to replenish the
lubricant inevitably result in severe wear known as "false
brinelling".

The bearings will fail because they do not turn; play will develop in
the affected joint. That design in principle may as well be a bolted
joint with the bolt left slightly loose.

Thanks, this is a convincing argument against.


If such a cheap and simple conceit actually made a positive
difference, don't you think it would be in general use after more than
100 years of fundamentally similar bicycle frames? Smarter people
than you and me have been thinking about this stuff all that time. I
guarantee you that someone tried this approach generations ago, and it
didn't work. Like then, it doesn't work now, except to separate a
fool and his money.

This is less convincing. MTB suspension was slow to gain acceptance
too, but look at it now.


If you or your wife desire a subtly better ride, use a slightly fatter
tire. It's much cheaper than marketing-driven nonsense, and it
actually works.

You're making assuptions again, as I never said anything about
comfort. I happen to be the happy owner of a compact aluminum frame.
But my wife wants a new Serotta and we're just evaluating the options.

I also own what I call my "Roubaix bike". It's a Ritchey Swiss Cross
with a Ruby suspension fork and slightly fatter road tires for pinch
flat avoidance, not comfort.

Regards,
Bret


Chalo Colina