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GD cable derailleurs!



 
 
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  #61  
Old April 11th 21, 05:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 1:02:32 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 1:54:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 12:45:48 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 12:48:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 10:10:43 AM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:

Mine have broken twice in the past 2 years right at about 6 months. The cable ends fray and lucky me it is flat in Illinois and I just ride home and put on a new cable. I change the last one that snapped in July 2020 so about a month ago instead of waiting for the cable to snap I just put a new one on. It is always the rear derailleur don't use the front much. Well sure enough the old cable looked fine when I pulled it out no fraying but I put a new cable one. Really a minor price to pay for not worry as much about snapping them on a ride. Actually I am pretty lucky I get 3-4000 miles before they snap or need to be change. No not going to Di2 my 6800 shifts smooth and silent.

Deacon Mark
I have no understanding of how you can do this. I did break an old steel cable that the Chinese were selling, or rather that a local was stocking and selling out of his garage. But I have never broken a single stainless cable and I have used some pretty cheap ones. I prefer the top end Campy cables and have never even come close to breaking one AFTER it was installed. As I was recovering my memories and some manual dexterity I did break some cables while installing them. But that was long ago and far away.
Well it is at the end in the shifter so it frays from the anchor point in the cable. Not like the cable just snaps into 2 separate pieces. If fact the cable really does not break it just pulls apart in the shifter and then you have to fish the parts out and make sure leave nothing behind. Shimano on the new stuff now has a part on the shifter to remove at space to get the cable head out. I have heard on earlier stuff sometimes they got stuck in and then you had to replace the shifter. There is even some place they have a way t drill through the shifter to get the cable head to spare the shifter.

But frankly if you want to know the truth on why it happens to me is because of all the power I produce in the hands on the shifter. I mean I can drop some serious power numbers up there when I take the swipe 🤣
Deacon Mark

Shimano never used this design in which both cables come out under the tape. This is a fairly new design and it is a funny design in which you poke the cable through from one side, remove a compartment cover and push the cable at a 90 degree angle up though a small passageway. I had misgivings about it when I saw it but it appeared to work fine on my 105 stuff on a cyclocross bike. I would have used what I think is called an Archimedes wheel-like mechanism.

The dual internal cable, AFAIK, started with the second generation 10sp (10 years ago) and uses a similar winding mechanism, but the cable now takes a hard turn in the lever, which is not where it breaks -- but those hard turns do put high stresses on the internal guides. The 6700 had a much more straight-forward cable path, and I don't know why they changed that up for the 6800. I think cable failure has been in basically the same place in all the STI shifters -- about a CM from the button head.


I have never seen a cable break in a 6700 series lever nor heard of it. It was a perfectly straight pull. That hard turn occurred in the 6800 and later levers and that put a large strain on the lead wire tip and the area where the turn occurred. It all seemed to work well enough but then all of the stuff I used them on had newly installed cables. How old was the cable of yours that broke?
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  #62  
Old April 11th 21, 11:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
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Posts: 385
Default GD cable derailleurs!

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:35:36 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:04:48 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 2:22:54 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:32:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it
out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour. I had a spare.


I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time &
distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison.

I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.

I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t
be cleaned/lubed into life.

Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never
snapped a hanger...

Now that they are making replaceable hangers the aluminum material is of
the wrong alloy and is very brittle. I don't think that this is to allow
break away in case of a crash or to make people buy more of them but
simply that alloy is just cheaper than hell. It appears to be almost pure aluminum.

These where both OEM parts, ie two separate bikes, one is fairly new, other
is 6 or 7 years old now. In both cases due to COVID19 restrictions I was
riding in well bog.

Ie have no reason to believe was any design fault.

Campy record or Chorus cables are lined with nylon I believe and with
stainless cables. Using these I don't expect any stickiness or grabbling
of any sort. I can't say that I was particularly impressed with Shimano
small parts like their cables and replacement parts. Of course, perhaps
your weather conditions are sufficiently glum that you have to watch out
for that sort of thing.

On the gravel bike the cables seem fairly protected, so generally don’t
have a issue, on the MTB has too much open space so bike shop has hacked
it, ie used a continuous line so there is only where it enters the
derailleur that muck can get in.

On the commute bike which is outside 99.9% of the time water gets in, plus
I have some soggy bits on the commute.

I think I did try some posher cables few years back, but it gummed up as
quickly, sometimes can be cleaned, the MTB and commute bike reach that
point once a year or so, Gravel not so far, it’s 2/3 years old. Though it’s
used in much kinder conditions.

I keep a touring bike out back in case something happens to my bike of I
have one of those occurrences of my eyes pointing in difference
directions and I get in a wreck and lose my license. It has never
occurred when I'm driving and I would instantly pull over if it did, but I am prepared.

Whoosh!

Are you talking about a seizure?


No, it is an occasional reaction to the medication. It only lasts a
minute of so and it is usually when I am sitting down in my house. It has
never happened on the bike except one time an I simply closed one eye so
I could safely pull to the side and wait for it to pass. It has never
happened while I was driving but then I don't drive close to when I take
the medication. After 20 minutes after I take the medication it can
happen. I suspect it is a rapid absorption and had started eating before
taking the medication. In two weeks I see my Neurologist again and we can
discuss what happened last night. I had an episode in the middle of the
night that felt like what he thought was a miniseizure. When I got up
this morning I realized that I had taken my evening medication twice.
Since it screws up your short term memory I put the pills in a plastic
container market with morning and evening and day of the week. I was busy
when the alarm went off so I delayed taking the medication. Then I must
have forgotten that I had taken the medication and did it again despite
the fact that it was marked. So these problem may all be attributable
with an overdose rather than an underdose.

Hmm may not be epilepsy, but sounds rather seizure like to be honest.

If the medication is causing it, which does happen definitely worth asking
for alternatives.

Didn’t you have a brain injury? Stuff that reduces cognitive function
doesn’t seem a great idea, unless no other options.

Roger Merriman

  #63  
Old April 12th 21, 01:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:59:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Folks, I think we have to seriously consider the possibility that Tom is
well into dementia. It's sad, and I'm not joking.

In his post about 33 lines above he said "Half of this scientific world
has been changed by the things I have done." But at the end of the
quoted material just above he said "Your world must certainly be small
if what I did seems to you to be the half of the scientific world."

So he can't remember what he very recently said. This example is far
from unique.

I don't know how to deal with someone whose mind is slipping and who
spouts nonsense. I've read that with a family member, one tactic is to
say "Yes, and... " then pivot the conversation to something pleasant and
distracting. Pretend to agree, then deflect. But I can't see that
working here.

Is there a psychologist or therapist in the audience? Again, I'm serious.


At this remove, neither psychology nor therapy is possible, and if it
were possible, it would not be appropriate.

There is nothing to do but to fall back on common courtesy. When
Tommy says something sensible, respond to it. When he burbles word
salad, pretend not to notice.

And don't feel obliged to read every single post. Nobody knows you
are present until you say something, so feigning interest is not only
not required, but rude.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


  #64  
Old April 12th 21, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default GD cable derailleurs!

Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:59:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Folks, I think we have to seriously consider the possibility that Tom is
well into dementia. It's sad, and I'm not joking.

In his post about 33 lines above he said "Half of this scientific world
has been changed by the things I have done." But at the end of the
quoted material just above he said "Your world must certainly be small
if what I did seems to you to be the half of the scientific world."

So he can't remember what he very recently said. This example is far
from unique.

I don't know how to deal with someone whose mind is slipping and who
spouts nonsense. I've read that with a family member, one tactic is to
say "Yes, and... " then pivot the conversation to something pleasant and
distracting. Pretend to agree, then deflect. But I can't see that
working here.

Is there a psychologist or therapist in the audience? Again, I'm serious.


At this remove, neither psychology nor therapy is possible, and if it
were possible, it would not be appropriate.

There is nothing to do but to fall back on common courtesy. When
Tommy says something sensible, respond to it. When he burbles word
salad, pretend not to notice.

And don't feel obliged to read every single post. Nobody knows you
are present until you say something, so feigning interest is not only
not required, but rude.



Agreed. Whatever needs to be done here needs to be done by local friends
and family. Our only tiny role is not to make things worse.

  #65  
Old April 12th 21, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default GD cable derailleurs!

Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:59:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Folks, I think we have to seriously consider the possibility that Tom is
well into dementia. It's sad, and I'm not joking.

In his post about 33 lines above he said "Half of this scientific world
has been changed by the things I have done." But at the end of the
quoted material just above he said "Your world must certainly be small
if what I did seems to you to be the half of the scientific world."

So he can't remember what he very recently said. This example is far
from unique.

I don't know how to deal with someone whose mind is slipping and who
spouts nonsense. I've read that with a family member, one tactic is to
say "Yes, and... " then pivot the conversation to something pleasant and
distracting. Pretend to agree, then deflect. But I can't see that
working here.

Is there a psychologist or therapist in the audience? Again, I'm serious.


At this remove, neither psychology nor therapy is possible, and if it
were possible, it would not be appropriate.

There is nothing to do but to fall back on common courtesy. When
Tommy says something sensible, respond to it. When he burbles word
salad, pretend not to notice.

And don't feel obliged to read every single post. Nobody knows you
are present until you say something, so feigning interest is not only
not required, but rude.



+1

  #66  
Old April 12th 21, 04:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 3:33:31 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:35:36 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:04:48 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 2:22:54 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:32:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my
wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and
snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a
9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one.
I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and
started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike.
The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable
Di2.

The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a
trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take
out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it
out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that
I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in
the middle of a tour. I had a spare.


I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time &
distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison.

I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using
cable actuated gears and brakes.

I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t
be cleaned/lubed into life.

Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never
snapped a hanger...

Now that they are making replaceable hangers the aluminum material is of
the wrong alloy and is very brittle. I don't think that this is to allow
break away in case of a crash or to make people buy more of them but
simply that alloy is just cheaper than hell. It appears to be almost pure aluminum.

These where both OEM parts, ie two separate bikes, one is fairly new, other
is 6 or 7 years old now. In both cases due to COVID19 restrictions I was
riding in well bog.

Ie have no reason to believe was any design fault.

Campy record or Chorus cables are lined with nylon I believe and with
stainless cables. Using these I don't expect any stickiness or grabbling
of any sort. I can't say that I was particularly impressed with Shimano
small parts like their cables and replacement parts. Of course, perhaps
your weather conditions are sufficiently glum that you have to watch out
for that sort of thing.

On the gravel bike the cables seem fairly protected, so generally don’t
have a issue, on the MTB has too much open space so bike shop has hacked
it, ie used a continuous line so there is only where it enters the
derailleur that muck can get in.

On the commute bike which is outside 99.9% of the time water gets in, plus
I have some soggy bits on the commute.

I think I did try some posher cables few years back, but it gummed up as
quickly, sometimes can be cleaned, the MTB and commute bike reach that
point once a year or so, Gravel not so far, it’s 2/3 years old. Though it’s
used in much kinder conditions.

I keep a touring bike out back in case something happens to my bike of I
have one of those occurrences of my eyes pointing in difference
directions and I get in a wreck and lose my license. It has never
occurred when I'm driving and I would instantly pull over if it did, but I am prepared.

Whoosh!

Are you talking about a seizure?


No, it is an occasional reaction to the medication. It only lasts a
minute of so and it is usually when I am sitting down in my house. It has
never happened on the bike except one time an I simply closed one eye so
I could safely pull to the side and wait for it to pass. It has never
happened while I was driving but then I don't drive close to when I take
the medication. After 20 minutes after I take the medication it can
happen. I suspect it is a rapid absorption and had started eating before
taking the medication. In two weeks I see my Neurologist again and we can
discuss what happened last night. I had an episode in the middle of the
night that felt like what he thought was a miniseizure. When I got up
this morning I realized that I had taken my evening medication twice.
Since it screws up your short term memory I put the pills in a plastic
container market with morning and evening and day of the week. I was busy
when the alarm went off so I delayed taking the medication. Then I must
have forgotten that I had taken the medication and did it again despite
the fact that it was marked. So these problem may all be attributable
with an overdose rather than an underdose.

Hmm may not be epilepsy, but sounds rather seizure like to be honest.

If the medication is causing it, which does happen definitely worth asking
for alternatives.

Didn’t you have a brain injury? Stuff that reduces cognitive function
doesn’t seem a great idea, unless no other options.

Roger Merriman

My concussion caused some small brain injuries which lead to Diabetic-like seizures which usually leave no memories of them having occurred. The medication is reasonably cheap and readily available and pinning it down to perhaps over-dosing might be an end to most of the problems. But there is always problems. I have no feeling in the front half of my feet which is a result of the medication and is noted as a side effect of its actions in the brain. But it is something I can work around.
  #67  
Old April 12th 21, 04:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 5:00:40 PM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:59:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Folks, I think we have to seriously consider the possibility that Tom is
well into dementia. It's sad, and I'm not joking.

In his post about 33 lines above he said "Half of this scientific world
has been changed by the things I have done." But at the end of the
quoted material just above he said "Your world must certainly be small
if what I did seems to you to be the half of the scientific world."

So he can't remember what he very recently said. This example is far
from unique.

I don't know how to deal with someone whose mind is slipping and who
spouts nonsense. I've read that with a family member, one tactic is to
say "Yes, and... " then pivot the conversation to something pleasant and
distracting. Pretend to agree, then deflect. But I can't see that
working here.

Is there a psychologist or therapist in the audience? Again, I'm serious.

At this remove, neither psychology nor therapy is possible, and if it
were possible, it would not be appropriate.

There is nothing to do but to fall back on common courtesy. When
Tommy says something sensible, respond to it. When he burbles word
salad, pretend not to notice.

And don't feel obliged to read every single post. Nobody knows you
are present until you say something, so feigning interest is not only
not required, but rude.


So now you too are assuming that this group of people who almost entirely have no business even being on a technical group have something of value to say about high tech bicycles when they all ride 1950 Schwinn's?

Andrew and Roger and Jay at least have something to say but you think that FRANK? whose donation to this site was that I was lying about being hit in the head by a limb of a tree grown out into the bike lane and covered so thoroughly with leaves that it was unseen and his "proof" of that preposterous statement was a picture from google earth 5 years or more old? This is what you believe to be babble on my part when I think that sort of thing from a large number here is misplaced?

You just placed yourself in that category yourself.
  #68  
Old April 12th 21, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 4:47:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
A few miles into my evening ride on my
cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me
on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill
and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.
(...)


There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits
called Power Cordz:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/
Their web site at:
http://www.powercordz.com
is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or
product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html
https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/

If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can
possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such
as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema,
Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the
standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid
fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence
in the idea.

Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech.

"Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid
Fiber"
https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber

Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers"
https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I briefly toyed with the idea of using powercords a few years ago. The thing that put me off was the alleged issue of the cable slipping out of the clamp - apparently it was difficult to get the clamps to effectively hold the cable even when the clamp was tightened to the extreme. I read that on several different forums. One user posted that he wrapped the cable through the clamp twice. I decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
  #69  
Old April 12th 21, 07:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default GD cable derailleurs!

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 2:08:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 11:53:57 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/8/2021 2:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:


People who pretend to be engineers are tiring.

You're telling us?? ;-)

I have 50 years of accomplishments at the highest levels. Tell us what you have added to the modern technology.


But you are not an engineer. I'm guessing to be an official engineer, you have to have a college degree in one of the engineering fields. Like Jay has an official Juris Doctorate degree so he can officially call himself a lawyer. A good analogy would be Bill Gates. 4th richest person on earth. But he does not have a college degree. He probably has a bunch of honorary degrees but those don't count. Bill cannot say he is a college graduate. Because he is not. Now obviously that probably means zip to him. You are not an engineer but Frank is. Despite all the engineering accomplishments you have achieved in your life.
 




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