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I am that out of date



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 16th 21, 09:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark cleary
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Posts: 51
Default I am that out of date

The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer. They definitely need a wheel person the shop manager is the only one who can really rebuild a wheel and probably my take only he could true them decent. That sounds pretty off for a Trek shop.

Then I told them I happen to have Shimano 6800 and was good with Shimano and Campy/Shram I did not work on much but not hard to figure out. They seem cool to the fact that I would figure it out pretty quick. But the guy mentions my 6800 is old stuff hard to get parts. I told him I road Titanium and still always want BSA thread BB on my bikes. He laugh but agreed at least TI was good and nothing wrong with rim brakes. I was just totally surprised they find 6800 old? Do folks ever ride bikes for a few years before buying another or junking?

Finally I told him I could not tell him if I wanted the job until after the weekend. He wants 3 days a week 10-6pm. I cannot do weekends the deacon works. Then the wild thing I am discerning if I want to pursue the priesthood with further study. If the Bishop gives me a dispensation on some formation requirements.....then? I don't want to work 3 days.

Finally I guess if you buy a bike it is outdate after 2 years? Granted mine is 4 but wow I was taken back by what he said.
Deacon Mark
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  #2  
Old April 16th 21, 09:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default I am that out of date

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 1:08:52 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer. They definitely need a wheel person the shop manager is the only one who can really rebuild a wheel and probably my take only he could true them decent. That sounds pretty off for a Trek shop.

Then I told them I happen to have Shimano 6800 and was good with Shimano and Campy/Shram I did not work on much but not hard to figure out. They seem cool to the fact that I would figure it out pretty quick. But the guy mentions my 6800 is old stuff hard to get parts. I told him I road Titanium and still always want BSA thread BB on my bikes. He laugh but agreed at least TI was good and nothing wrong with rim brakes. I was just totally surprised they find 6800 old? Do folks ever ride bikes for a few years before buying another or junking?

Finally I told him I could not tell him if I wanted the job until after the weekend. He wants 3 days a week 10-6pm. I cannot do weekends the deacon works. Then the wild thing I am discerning if I want to pursue the priesthood with further study. If the Bishop gives me a dispensation on some formation requirements.....then? I don't want to work 3 days.

Finally I guess if you buy a bike it is outdate after 2 years? Granted mine is 4 but wow I was taken back by what he said.
Deacon Mark

All of the upper end Shimano are disk brakes as of 2021. They also changed from that crappy BB90 to T47 which is a threaded version of the BB90.

Shimano disk brakes are EASY to work on and the things you need to know is how to install them and how to bleed them. One time and you are set for life. They have video's that show you how to do it all and it is so easy that I looked at a video and did a completely bike in 20 minutes. And that was slow compared to what a shop worker could do after a couple of times.

The hard things: 1. there are a dozen or more bottom bracket standards and they are ALL different and have their own peculiarities. BB386 is normally 30 mm shaft diameter which is used by several crank manufacturers but is also available in 24 mm for Shimano cranks or 24/22 mm for SRAM crap. You coat the outside of the BB in non-seize compound and you place the largest side of the BB on the power side. You need two 52mm tools that are made by Park Tool to insert them properly.

BBright is the standard of Cervelo and it is for 30 mm cranks shafts only. It is narrower than most and is ratherr silly in my mind.

They made other such as a BB30 which is supposed to be a 30 mm crank shaft diameter. I haven't worked on one of these but I believe that it is a standard BB but set up for push in bearing meaning that the crank shaft itself is narrower then standard.

Campy makes an Ultradrive which puts some cups in a normal BB shell but the bearings are part of the crank and the shaft has a 25 mm diameter.

At the bottom of it all - because carbon fiber requires a lot of area to become strong enough not to break, they worry about aerodynamics. Because Steel tubing is so comparatively much smaller in diameter Aerodynamics on anything other than the wheels is unnecessary. The increased speed of the carbon bikes is because they are lighter so pros ride them. When you have a full time power of 450 watts, you are going up hills so damn fast that you HAVE to have a superlight bike to be competitive.

For Joe Average rider that puts out 150-200 watts FTP it matters very little. You are simply going too slow for weight and aerodynamics to make any difference, Aerodynamic deep section carbon fiber wheels have absolutely horrible rim braking though Campy pads improves that somewhat. Put disk brakes on it and the brakes go from dangerously inadequate to dangerously overadequate.

There ARE aerodynamic aluminum wheels available. They are only 40 mm deep but again, who is it that is going to have enough power for it to make a difference? The pro's are sponsored so they aren't going to change to aluminum wheels.

But rim brakes on aluminum wheels is where it is at. You can still brake too hard and crash, but you have to work at it.

Other than disk brakes on MTB's which are a whole lot harder to bleed, there is really nothing to worry about.
  #3  
Old April 16th 21, 10:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default I am that out of date

On 4/16/2021 1:08 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer.


It's amazing how fast disc brakes have taken over, even on road bikes.
Perhaps it's just an effort by manufacturers to get new customers to
avoid buying used rim brake bicycles. You've seen how one poster here is
incredulous that no one is buying his used rim brake Trek for the price
he wants, but the reality is that a use rim brake road bicycle is no
longer desirable by many buyers even though in most cases there's little
benefit to disc brakes on a road bike.
  #4  
Old April 16th 21, 11:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default I am that out of date

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 14:54:10 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/16/2021 1:08 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer.


It's amazing how fast disc brakes have taken over, even on road bikes.
Perhaps it's just an effort by manufacturers to get new customers to
avoid buying used rim brake bicycles. You've seen how one poster here is
incredulous that no one is buying his used rim brake Trek for the price
he wants, but the reality is that a use rim brake road bicycle is no
longer desirable by many buyers even though in most cases there's little
benefit to disc brakes on a road bike.


Well, It's NEW! and therefore MUST be better! Just like a 11 speed
bicycle must be better then a 10 speed bicycle :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #5  
Old April 17th 21, 02:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 05:46:31 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 14:54:10 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/16/2021 1:08 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer.


It's amazing how fast disc brakes have taken over, even on road bikes.
Perhaps it's just an effort by manufacturers to get new customers to
avoid buying used rim brake bicycles. You've seen how one poster here is
incredulous that no one is buying his used rim brake Trek for the price
he wants, but the reality is that a use rim brake road bicycle is no
longer desirable by many buyers even though in most cases there's little
benefit to disc brakes on a road bike.


Well, It's NEW! and therefore MUST be better! Just like a 11 speed
bicycle must be better then a 10 speed bicycle :-)


Not good enough. Soon, the 22 speed corn cob will become the de facto
standard for excellence in cycling overkill.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg
To make a reasonably straight chain line with 22 gears, just stack up
two identical triple gear chain rings that cover 2 or 3 adjacent gears
on the freewheel. Shifting both front and rear derailleurs
simultaneously might require contortionist or a computer, but those
are easy enough to find. It might also be rather difficult to ride,
but that's easily forgiven by owner in trade for the cool looking
photo opportunities. Patents pending.

Soon everyone will be riding on 22 speed freewheels and cassettes.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #6  
Old April 17th 21, 02:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default I am that out of date

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 6:17:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 05:46:31 +0700, John B.
wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 14:54:10 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/16/2021 1:08 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they are a Trek Dealer.

It's amazing how fast disc brakes have taken over, even on road bikes.
Perhaps it's just an effort by manufacturers to get new customers to
avoid buying used rim brake bicycles. You've seen how one poster here is
incredulous that no one is buying his used rim brake Trek for the price
he wants, but the reality is that a use rim brake road bicycle is no
longer desirable by many buyers even though in most cases there's little
benefit to disc brakes on a road bike.


Well, It's NEW! and therefore MUST be better! Just like a 11 speed
bicycle must be better then a 10 speed bicycle :-)

Not good enough. Soon, the 22 speed corn cob will become the de facto
standard for excellence in cycling overkill.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg
To make a reasonably straight chain line with 22 gears, just stack up
two identical triple gear chain rings that cover 2 or 3 adjacent gears
on the freewheel. Shifting both front and rear derailleurs
simultaneously might require contortionist or a computer, but those
are easy enough to find. It might also be rather difficult to ride,
but that's easily forgiven by owner in trade for the cool looking
photo opportunities. Patents pending.

Soon everyone will be riding on 22 speed freewheels and cassettes.


Nothing introduced after 1975 -- by personal proclamation the index year for the golden age of cycling -- is worth a ****. Not STI, good clinchers, more comfortable tires, discs, electronic, step in pedals, etc., etc. Its all marketing, posing, consumer nonsense. All of my current bikes are just marketing and flash. I hate them and will burn them in a heap and then go get a real bike -- a 1975 bleeding-edge 126mm six speed (13-19) with a boat anchor qua seat post with two adjusting bolts buried under the saddle for maximum inconvenience. I'm going to get real leather toe-straps with the Holstein fur exteriors still intact, hubs with imaginary seals for wet weather riding in the PNW. Maybe some Mathauser brake pads. And a bottle dyno with an incandescent light. Forward into the past!

-- Jay Beattie.

  #7  
Old April 17th 21, 03:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 18:52:47 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

Nothing introduced after 1975 -- by personal proclamation the index year
for the golden age of cycling -- is worth a ****.
(...)


That's about 100 years too modern. I suggest you looking into
"Steampunk Bicycle" technology, much of which dates from the 19th
century.
https://www.google.com/search?q=steampunk+bicycle&tbm=isch

These look like conveyances appropriate for opulent commuting.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/20/rayvolt-electric-bicycles-motorcycle/
They may not have a 22 gear cassette, but rest of the machine reeks of
classic style and ostentation.

This Steampunk lighting system is for Frank:
https://www.instructables.com/Bicycle-Light-Steampunk-Style/
The fuel of choice is probably whale oil.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #8  
Old April 17th 21, 01:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default I am that out of date

Mark cleary wrote:
The local bike shop needs a mechanic they called me about doing some work
for them. They knew I could build wheels and repair them and the manger
of shop knows me. Well I go in to discuss things and they said most all
the work they do is on disk brake bikes. That surprised me although they
are a Trek Dealer. They definitely need a wheel person the shop manager
is the only one who can really rebuild a wheel and probably my take only
he could true them decent. That sounds pretty off for a Trek shop.

Then I told them I happen to have Shimano 6800 and was good with Shimano
and Campy/Shram I did not work on much but not hard to figure out. They
seem cool to the fact that I would figure it out pretty quick. But the
guy mentions my 6800 is old stuff hard to get parts. I told him I road
Titanium and still always want BSA thread BB on my bikes. He laugh but
agreed at least TI was good and nothing wrong with rim brakes. I was just
totally surprised they find 6800 old? Do folks ever ride bikes for a few
years before buying another or junking?

Finally I told him I could not tell him if I wanted the job until after
the weekend. He wants 3 days a week 10-6pm. I cannot do weekends the
deacon works. Then the wild thing I am discerning if I want to pursue the
priesthood with further study. If the Bishop gives me a dispensation on
some formation requirements.....then? I don't want to work 3 days.

Finally I guess if you buy a bike it is outdate after 2 years? Granted
mine is 4 but wow I was taken back by what he said.
Deacon Mark

Depends on type of bike shop. My local is mostly repairs, lots of commuter
use it, I have never had a problem with parts being hard to get on any of
the bikes I have.

The other is a much swisher place that has coffee etc and somewhere you can
or could pre COVID19, can’t sell me disk brake pads on 2 out of my 3 bikes
as they are a very common but older type!

Roger Merriman.

  #9  
Old April 17th 21, 01:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default I am that out of date

On 4/16/2021 6:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Not good enough. Soon, the 22 speed corn cob will become the de facto
standard for excellence in cycling overkill.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg
To make a reasonably straight chain line with 22 gears, just stack up
two identical triple gear chain rings that cover 2 or 3 adjacent gears
on the freewheel. Shifting both front and rear derailleurs
simultaneously might require contortionist or a computer, but those
are easy enough to find. It might also be rather difficult to ride,
but that's easily forgiven by owner in trade for the cool looking
photo opportunities. Patents pending.

Soon everyone will be riding on 22 speed freewheels and cassettes.


This is really impractical in terms of wheel building.

I like the wide-range 12 speed cassettes but that's about the limit.

On my touring bike I paired a Garbaruk 12 cog 10-52 Cassette
https://www.garbaruk.com/12-speed-xd.html with an SRAM DD3 dual drive
hub https://lunacycle.com/sram-dd3-igh-3-speed-hub-with-shifter/ and
added a Mountain Tamer Quad 4th chainring
http://abundantadventures.com/quads.html#MOUNTAIN_TAMER_QUADTM_49.95,
then added a Schlumpf Mountain Drive
http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/mountain-drive.html.

It's nice having a selection of 288 different gear combinations though
because of overlap it's really only 123 actual different gear ratios.

The range between the lowest gear and the highest gear is amazing. The
lowest gear is so low that even at a cadence of 240 rpm you're not going
fast enough to stay upright. The highest gear is so high that it's only
usable when going downhill on grades of 12% or more at speeds of 80 mph
or greater.

It's kind of a pain dealing with four separate gear shifters but there
are some after-market wireless electronic shifters that I may add and
control them with a smart phone app. Then I'll put the bike up for sale
on eBay and when no one is willing to pay what I spent on these
improvements I'll complain about it here.

I was disappointed to learn that there is no 14 speed Rohloff SPEEDHUB
that can accept a cassette so my dream of 1,344 gear combinations was
thwarted.
  #10  
Old April 17th 21, 03:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default I am that out of date

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 5:42:17 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2021 6:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip
Not good enough. Soon, the 22 speed corn cob will become the de facto
standard for excellence in cycling overkill.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg
To make a reasonably straight chain line with 22 gears, just stack up
two identical triple gear chain rings that cover 2 or 3 adjacent gears
on the freewheel. Shifting both front and rear derailleurs
simultaneously might require contortionist or a computer, but those
are easy enough to find. It might also be rather difficult to ride,
but that's easily forgiven by owner in trade for the cool looking
photo opportunities. Patents pending.

Soon everyone will be riding on 22 speed freewheels and cassettes.

This is really impractical in terms of wheel building.

I like the wide-range 12 speed cassettes but that's about the limit.

On my touring bike I paired a Garbaruk 12 cog 10-52 Cassette
https://www.garbaruk.com/12-speed-xd.html with an SRAM DD3 dual drive
hub https://lunacycle.com/sram-dd3-igh-3-speed-hub-with-shifter/ and
added a Mountain Tamer Quad 4th chainring
http://abundantadventures.com/quads.html#MOUNTAIN_TAMER_QUADTM_49.95,
then added a Schlumpf Mountain Drive
http://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/mountain-drive.html.

It's nice having a selection of 288 different gear combinations though
because of overlap it's really only 123 actual different gear ratios.

The range between the lowest gear and the highest gear is amazing. The
lowest gear is so low that even at a cadence of 240 rpm you're not going
fast enough to stay upright. The highest gear is so high that it's only
usable when going downhill on grades of 12% or more at speeds of 80 mph
or greater.

It's kind of a pain dealing with four separate gear shifters but there
are some after-market wireless electronic shifters that I may add and
control them with a smart phone app. Then I'll put the bike up for sale
on eBay and when no one is willing to pay what I spent on these
improvements I'll complain about it here.

I was disappointed to learn that there is no 14 speed Rohloff SPEEDHUB
that can accept a cassette so my dream of 1,344 gear combinations was
thwarted.

Well at least we the comedic fools that love to post about things they know so little about. Except Jay, who feels the need to tout "modern" construction and components to use of them because he got them at cut rate prices through his son.
 




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