Rock n Roll

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped out
dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain, push
in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly holding but
not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was my
favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

I will attest to that. I inherited my father's tools and his files were all hell and gone better than what I can buy at the hardware store or Harbor Freight.

Just because they CAN make better files today doesn't mean that they do.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped out
dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain, push
in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly holding but
not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was my
favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when it was back on the bike for final install.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2017-06-22 06:51, wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

I will attest to that. I inherited my father's tools and his files
were all hell and gone better than what I can buy at the hardware
store or Harbor Freight.

Just because they CAN make better files today doesn't mean that they
do.


They still make good ones but you'll have to buy Pferd and similar
brands. The top stuff isn't always available at hardware stores. What I
don't understand is people whining "Oh, it can't be done!" but they only
tried with some $4.99 hardware store file. Probably didn't even have a
handle which you need for this job.

The same goes for bigger gear. I have an electric drill from my grandpa
which is pre-WW2 vintage. Indestructible.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:08:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

I had a file once that I got from this crazy locomotive engineer. It broke. I went back to using my chain tool to file parts. I had a hex wrench break, too, so now I use vice grips -- or a hammer.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:02:21 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped out
dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain, push
in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly holding but
not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was my
favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when it was back on the bike for final install.

While I agree, I did manufacture some home-made tools to work on Campy brifters. And it did include using a nail as a punch.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:08:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

You have to be extremely careful to have the chain tool pin properly aligned or you can break it off. That's why most of these tools come with a couple of replacement tips.

On 22/06/2017 10:08 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.


Of course it did.

On 22/06/2017 11:23 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:08:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 07:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no match. The filing exercise in the photo took just
a few strokes and not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll find (as James and I did) that no steel file
will put significant cuts in the pin. Abrasives (e.g.
aluminum oxide sandpaper, grinding wheels, diamond "files")
will cut the pin; but unless motorized, they'll cut it pretty
slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a rough
description of practical hardness commonly used in machine
shops. Steel that is "file hard" is too hard to be cut with a
file. It's even in dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain pin.
There may be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm
not familiar with. But having worked in three machine shops
for various lengths of time, I can say that any normal
"professional grade" steel file attacking a chain pin will
give you scratches in the file and no significant change in
the chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited from
my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too. I wear out a first rate American made
file in 4 to 6 months of frame repair and nothing I work on is
hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are
quite worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer
and he bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn.
He also bought new ones but then only the best just like the
railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have
swapped out dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip
(which could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel
nut underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and
hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain,
push in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly
holding but not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in
Europe were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and
that was my favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool
in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine
removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and
presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when
it was back on the bike for final install.


I did use a borrowed chain tool once before I had my own. It broke. I
had to buy the guy a new one. Then I went back to my old method. The
chain tool I have now came with a bike repair tool kit, else I still
wouldn't have one.

I had a file once that I got from this crazy locomotive engineer. It broke. I went back to using my chain tool to file parts. I had a hex wrench break, too, so now I use vice grips -- or a hammer.


chains must be mystical. You can break a chain tool replacing one but a
nail and a stone works like a charm.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 7:02:21 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:27:23 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-22 05:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2017 12:26 AM, James wrote:
On 22/06/17 01:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2017 10:13 AM, Joerg wrote:

For a top quality industrial file a regular bicycle chain
pin is no
match. The filing exercise in the photo took just a few
strokes and
not a lot of pressu

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chain1.jpg

I invite other readers to try filing their chain pins. I
think you'll
find (as James and I did) that no steel file will put
significant cuts
in the pin. Abrasives (e.g. aluminum oxide sandpaper,
grinding wheels,
diamond "files") will cut the pin; but unless motorized,
they'll cut it
pretty slowly.

Again: For at least a century, "file hard" has been a
rough description
of practical hardness commonly used in machine shops.
Steel that is
"file hard" is too hard to be cut with a file. It's even in
dictionaries:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/file-hard

I can't say that no file in the world will cut a chain
pin. There may
be some exotic and rare files out there that I'm not
familiar with. But
having worked in three machine shops for various lengths
of time, I can
say that any normal "professional grade" steel file
attacking a chain
pin will give you scratches in the file and no significant
change in the
chain pin.


But Joerg's files are "professional grade files inherited
from my grandpa. Some of which he inherited from
great-grandpa."

They made steel much harder back then don't you know?


I wondered about that too.
I wear out a first rate American made file in 4 to 6 months of frame
repair and nothing I work on is hardened.


They made excellent files in the olden days. The ones I have are quite
worn. That is because grandpa was a steam locomotive engineer and he
bought tools that the railroad shop kicked out as too worn. He also
bought new ones but then only the best just like the railroad shop did.

Until recently I had no chain tool and over my lifetime have swapped out
dozens of chains via this method:

1. Lay down the bike.

2. File down a pin so the punch or hardened nail would not slip (which
could result in a major ouch situation).

3. Place link on a large metal block, anvil, whatever. Place steel nut
underneath link. Nut must be larger than pin.

4. Drive out pin with punch and hammer or hardened nail and hammer.

5. Do same with new chain to bring to required length. Mount chain, push
in the last pin, "caress" it with the hammer so it is firmly holding but
not too tight.

The only bikes that had removable links back in the old days in Europe
were single-gear classic ones. Road bikes usually didn't and that was my
favorite kind of bike (until mountain bikes appeared).

This is like fixing a car with a shovel. I bought my first chain tool in the early '70s, and it cost me like $2. I couldn't imagine removing or installing a chain with a hammer, nail and file -- and presumably a block of wood or something to put under the chain when it was back on the bike for final install.

While I agree, I did manufacture some home-made tools to work on Campy brifters. And it did include using a nail as a punch.

That's bike repair 303 and not Intro to Bike Repair. For high level stuff, you sometimes have to fabricate tools -- unless you're willing to spend a bundle on a Campy/Shimano, etc. one-use wonder tool, assuming you could find a source. A chain tool comes bundled on many pocket tools. You send your daughter off to college with a chain tool.

Back in the old days when I cleaned my chains and had a stable of bikes, I had (and still have) multiple chain tools, including chain pliers. I should sell my old Hozan pliers to Joerg. All I use these days is my Park shop tool and the quick-link pliers. And a file. I file everything with the ancient and ultra-hard files handed down to me by my Great Granddaddy who bought them from elves who forged them in middle-earth -- or Michigan, one of the two. BTW, my sister was a steam locomotive engineer, and she uses a chain tool and not a file. http://scholarworks.sjsu.edu/cgi/vie...t=spartandaily
(page 3)

-- Jay Beattie.