WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

Per Frank Krygowski:
Personally, I think it has a lot more to do with the most massive,
advanced and expensive military machine in the world, not the six-
shooters behind blades of grass.)

I'll also note that Yamamoto (& Krushchev, & Mao, & the Kim Jong boys,
etc.) never invaded Canada either.

Reminds me of the Elephant Whistle joke:

A homeless guy is wandering around Central Park blowing a whistle.

Passerby asks "Why are you blowing that whistle?"

Guy replies: "To keep the wild elephants away."

Passerby says "But there aren't any wild elephants for thousands of
miles."

Guy replies: "See!... It works!!!"
--
Pete Cresswell

On 4/16/2013 9:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 16, 7:27 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 5:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:









On Apr 16, 5:13 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Apr 16, 5:02 pm, AMuzi wrote:

p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms
Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are
not unusual countries.

I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual
country. That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are
bad.

Duly noted by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would
be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

That's all that's kept the Canadians from conquering us, for sure!

But I think our gun fixation, weird as it is, is far from the biggest
difference between the U.S. and most other countries.

- Frank Krygowski

Canada? Really?
Apparently Mr Yamamoto's Royal Navy commission has been kept
a secret. At least from me.

It's not that Yamamoto worked for Canada. It's that Canada is yet
another example of a nation that doesn't invade us.

(Personally, I think it has a lot more to do with the most massive,
advanced and expensive military machine in the world, not the six-
shooters behind blades of grass.)

I'll also note that Yamamoto (& Krushchev, & Mao, & the Kim Jong boys,
etc.) never invaded Canada either.

- Frank Krygowski


Well, watch out for West Fenwick at least.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, April 24, 2009 8:35:45 PM UTC-6, jim beam wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Andrew Muzi wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies
by Andre Jute

Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and
other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,
suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655
I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,
eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic
roots.
[...]
Godiva? Way too complex.
Nice clean Waterford open track frame:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html

Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively
pretty format with polished stainless lugwork.

YMMV.


What am I missing here? How is the Godiva more complex, other than cable
guide braze-ons?

For value, I think this is much better:
http://www.gunnarbikes.com/crosshairs.php. $1150 for a custom geometry
frame.


what's with this ridiculous steel obsession? this group has been
grossly infected recently it seems.

typically, aluminum is:

cheaper
stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds
lighter
more corrosion resistant.

is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been
missing out on?

I have ridden steel, aluminum, titanium and carbon.

all things being equal and having compared materials, I found that I dislike al the most. They feel very harsh to me since I am, of course, a wimp. I used to think that the harshness idea was bs and that there was no difference, blah, blah, blah, until I rode one. But that is not scientific, but m humble opinion.

carbon is light and cheap, but didn't feel nice.

I find steel to feel like it has really nice road feel. Not sure exactly what it is like, but I can sort of describe it as driving a continental vs an elantra gt. With the elantra, I can feel the road on the steering wheel and I like it. with the continental, I can't feel anything.

My favorite rides have been a basso ascot which died in a car crash. the second best bike was a specialized allez lugged, which felt awesome but was a tiny bit small. I really don't care much about weight so steel is nice for me.

Having said this, I have a ti bike that feels like steel. I bought it custom made from china for not much. It has over 20,000 miles. The nice thing is that, every year, I rub it with scotchbright and, bingo, I have a new bike.. rides great has a 75.5 seattube angle which is perfect for my short legs, and I use it as a tt tri bike just by switching bars.

On Friday, April 24, 2009 4:45:21 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies
by Andre Jute

Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and
other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,
suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655
I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,
eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic
roots.

Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been
hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as
the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy
roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The
pricelist, here,
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655
reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest
lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,
getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box
"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent
Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for
Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.

No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,
and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with
a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the
single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.

Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a
machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can
buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and
a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price
of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle
maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.

So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and
fork with pinstriping.

GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --
FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!

Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel
frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,
and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the
delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous
bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050
cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or
garden frame, that is for a very special frame.

Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the
German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to
Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp
or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5
and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork
with a distinguished road pedigree.


WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,
GO UPMARKET

Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at
over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob
Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to
the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match
the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,
essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the
price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything.

A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely
equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,
fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.

You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more
sane. Waterford is a joke.


IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?

There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no
breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames
appear to be bog-standard and dull.

The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone
crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling
the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my
Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html
is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass
American stupidity.)

A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube
to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The
Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The
Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty
commonplace really.

What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of
advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte
profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte
but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the
cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.

Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or
should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were
intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.

Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit
netsites. For any other use approach the author.

I know this is four years old but I ride a carbon frame Specialized Robaix. I do own a Gary Fisher Reynolds 853 frame that I have held since new and am proud of. A friend of mine bought a Gunnar inexpensively as a built bike. Being from Wisconsin, I do appreciate the Waterford frames. Today, in fact, I chased a guy down in Seattle that was riding one without any badging. The beauty of the frame was astounding and cleanly built. I do agree with everything you said, however. In fact, I am going to be investigating what you suggested as well as some other options. Here in Seattle, the high-end steel frames are "Davidson" and they look real nice. When I've seen this bikes on rides, they've been outfitted with Campy. I looked at the Waterford price list and it is obviously super steep. We do have to remember that the prices are for a strictly custom frameset, at least I believe so. When a builder does a frame to a requested spec., they incur some risk buyer dissatisfaction, difficulties or setbacks in the build - which cost them money. The need a cushion to insure profit on custom builds. I'm not trying to protect Waterford, per se, I just understand that it is okay to charge whatever you want - because the buyer has the right to say no and look elsewhere. I'm going to look elsewhere. I don't need any more bikes but I miss my old steel roadbikes.

On Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:53:58 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Friday, April 24, 2009 4:45:21 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies

by Andre Jute



Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and

other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,

suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:

http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655

I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,

eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic

roots.



Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been

hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as

the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy

roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The

pricelist, here,

http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655

reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest

lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,

getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box

"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent

Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for

Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.



No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,

and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with

a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the

single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.



Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a

machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can

buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and

a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price

of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle

maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.



So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and

fork with pinstriping.



GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --

FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!



Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel

frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,

and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the

delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous

bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050

cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or

garden frame, that is for a very special frame.



Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the

German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to

Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp

or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5

and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork

with a distinguished road pedigree.





WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,

GO UPMARKET



Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at

over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob

Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to

the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match

the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,

essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the

price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything.



A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely

equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,

fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.



You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more

sane. Waterford is a joke.





IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?



There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no

breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames

appear to be bog-standard and dull.



The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone

crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling

the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my

Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass

American stupidity.)



A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube

to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The

Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The

Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty

commonplace really.



What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of

advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte

profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte

but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the

cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.



Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or

should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were

intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.



Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit

netsites. For any other use approach the author.



I know this is four years old but I ride a carbon frame Specialized Robaix. I do own a Gary Fisher Reynolds 853 frame that I have held since new and am proud of. A friend of mine bought a Gunnar inexpensively as a built bike. Being from Wisconsin, I do appreciate the Waterford frames. Today, in fact, I chased a guy down in Seattle that was riding one without any badging. The beauty of the frame was astounding and cleanly built. I do agree with everything you said, however. In fact, I am going to be investigating what you suggested as well as some other options. Here in Seattle, the high-end steel frames are "Davidson" and they look real nice. When I've seen this bikes on rides, they've been outfitted with Campy. I looked at the Waterford price list and it is obviously super steep. We do have to remember that the prices are for a strictly custom frameset, at least I believe so. When a builder does a frame to a requested spec., they incur some risk buyer dissatisfaction, difficulties or setbacks in the build - which cost them money. The need a cushion to insure profit on custom builds. I'm not trying to protect Waterford, per se, I just understand that it is okay to charge whatever you want - because the buyer has the right to say no and look elsewhere. I'm going to look elsewhere. I don't need any more bikes but I miss my old steel roadbikes.

It's a pity that so many of the really good steel bikes are today welded rather than lugged. I hang out with the Thorn (1) guys quite a bit, and their bike has been on my shortlist for yonks but I just can't bring myself to buy another welded bike.

Good luck, Scott.

Andre Jute

(1) This is a British touring bike Sheldon Brown liked. I like the designer's common-sense approach to both frames and components -- except for the welding!

!

On 9/21/2013 7:37 PM, datakoll wrote:
!

¡

--
T0m $herm@n

Got it. You think Waterford bikes are expensive, you have a right to think that. You don't have to bitch about it, just don't buy one and move on. Doesn't mean they are a joke.

On Saturday, April 25, 2009 6:45:21 AM UTC+7, Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies
by Andre Jute

Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and
other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,
suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655
I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,
eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic
roots.

Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been
hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as
the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy
roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The
pricelist, here,
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655
reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest
lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,
getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box
"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent
Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for
Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.

No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,
and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with
a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the
single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.

Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a
machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can
buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and
a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price
of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle
maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.

So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and
fork with pinstriping.

GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --
FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!

Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel
frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,
and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the
delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous
bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050
cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or
garden frame, that is for a very special frame.

Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the
German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to
Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp
or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5
and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork
with a distinguished road pedigree.


WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,
GO UPMARKET

Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at
over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob
Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to
the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match
the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,
essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the
price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything.

A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely
equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,
fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.

You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more
sane. Waterford is a joke.


IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?

There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no
breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames
appear to be bog-standard and dull.

The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone
crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling
the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my
Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html
is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass
American stupidity.)

A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube
to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The
Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The
Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty
commonplace really.

What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of
advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte
profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte
but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the
cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.

Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or
should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were
intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.

Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit
netsites. For any other use approach the author.

I'm not bitching about the price of Waterford bikes, son. I don't care about the cost of stuff; I always buy the best. I ride a bike several times the price of a Waterford. If you read the whole piece, you'll discover that I'm analyzing the reasons why Waterford is poor value for all that money. That's what I care about: value for money. And value for money does most emphatically not include being ripped several multiples of it's real worth for the Waterford name. It just isn't that good, either the bike or the name. That's why a Waterford bike is a joke.

Normally, I wouldn't even bother to say what i think of Waterford's price list unless some magazine or TV program paid me to express an opinion, but in this instance -- as you would also know if you had read even the first couple of paragraphs instead of shooting your wad over the headline -- comparing the Waterford frame in question to frames with real provenance wasn't my idea, it was the idea of that idiot roadie Russell S Eaton and some other RBT morons like Tom Sherman, who were touting abusively for business for inferior American manufacturers.

Here's a tip: A high price doesn't guarantee value or even quality, nor even "luxury", by which the nouveau riche mean "ostentatious exclusivity". All that a high price proves is that you're a fashion victim for falling for the oldest trick in the book.

Satisfied?

Andre Jute

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:24:17 PM UTC, wrote:
Got it. You think Waterford bikes are expensive, you have a right to think that. You don't have to bitch about it, just don't buy one and move on. Doesn't mean they are a joke.



On Saturday, April 25, 2009 6:45:21 AM UTC+7, Andre Jute wrote:

WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies

by Andre Jute



Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and

other Americans, touting for business for their own industry,

suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model:

http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655

I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on,

eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic

roots.



Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been

hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as

the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy

roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The

pricelist, here,

http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655

reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest

lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up,

getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box

"pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent

Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for

Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825.



No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down,

and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with

a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the

single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro.



Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a

machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can

buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and

a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price

of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle

maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate.



So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and

fork with pinstriping.



GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD --

FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE!



Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel

frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts,

and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the

delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous

bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050

cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or

garden frame, that is for a very special frame.



Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the

German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to

Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920)

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp

or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts)

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5

and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork

with a distinguished road pedigree.





WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD,

GO UPMARKET



Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at

over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob

Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to

the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match

the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars,

essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the

price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything.



A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely

equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson,

fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest.



You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more

sane. Waterford is a joke.





IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE?



There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no

breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames

appear to be bog-standard and dull.



The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone

crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling

the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my

Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html

is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass

American stupidity.)



A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube

to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The

Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The

Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty

commonplace really.



What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of

advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte

profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte

but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the

cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte.



Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or

should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were

intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell.



Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit

netsites. For any other use approach the author.

No breeding? It's the same company that made Schwinn paramounts going back decades. No one is forcing you to buy anything.