Do bicycles and cars mix?

On 8 Aug 2003 00:34:47 +0950, vancegod
wrote:

Dear Claire, Hopefully you are joking. And if so, I believe this is not
snip
on two wheels. And the only thing in this world I dislike more than
"bike-nazzi's" is "bike-nazzi's" in lycra. Thanks for helping to give us

I'm quite enamored with female bike-nazis in lycra.

--
Rick Onanian

vancegod wrote i

Dear Claire, Hopefully you are joking.

What? Please learn to quote.

As much as I don't like it, public roads were not
put there for any of us to drive (or ride) to work, the video store, or
even the bike shop.

Um. That's what "public" means. It means that everybody gets to use
them, on an equal footing. This is one of the oldest concepts in
Western common law, going back well before the Romans. You were stoned
the entire time you went to college, weren't you?

So you would have your "rights" supported at the expense of the majority?

On my planet, that's what a "right" means. I'm not sure about your
planet.

I would close with the disclosure of the fact that I was a Messenger in
Portland, OR for 13 years. I have also
[..etc..]

And you're still this ignorant? Wow.

CC

maybe a look into mass transit might be an option. Trains and buses with
bike racks might be a solution for longer hauls...as well as a way to
force some people in the US to exercise.....It would definitly help
lower health care costs.....- Winter would suck thou especially in
states with any amount of snow....... everyone would have to learn to
ride on studded cross tires.....



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tim@devrx wrote in message ...
Well, I'm not really Tim I'm his son Luke but I'm also a keen biker and,
for a start, this guy shouldn't have been on the road, but also, this
doesn't indicate that car drivers are undertrained. I'm pretty sure most
drivers would not have blamed this accident on a lack of training. I
also don't know if don is a car driver but if he is may I ask what makes
him a better trained car driver than the rest of us?

I haven't claimed I'm a better driver (but riding a motorbike, chances
are I am). I just said American drivers are undertrained when they get
their license, wich is later perpetuated by a fool-proof automatic
transmission and by the lack of any comprehensive law enforcement...


There is definitely a place for cars to mix with bikes, however both
parties should try and be considerate and often they aren't. Cyclists
are vulnerable, so in my opinion anyone found using any vehicle in a
manner to endanger them should, rather than just being fined/getting
points, be made to realise the possible consequences of their actions.
When cycling myself I often force drivers not to overtake dangerously
without thinking about it by riding far out from the kerb and thus, to
a certain degree, trusting that motorists don't actually want to kill
me. So far it's worked. I've been cut up/forced off the road when I
haven't done this, but never had a near miss doing it. I also feel that
this emphasises my status on the road as a vehicle (as the other
vehicles have to think about overtaking me) and hopefully one day all
drivers will see all cyclists as vehicles, and treat them with the
respect they deserve.

Good move by almost taking the lane. That's what I propose while
there's no place for bicyclists. But not much will happen until
bicycles can have their own turf in the Asphalt Jungle, in which they
always are the prey...

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

Originally posted by Claire Petersky Ah! It is clear to me now! Bicycles
and cars do not mix!

There is only one clear and sensible solution -- ban all motor
vehicles from the roadway. It would certainly make my commute safer
and more pleasant.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky, MRP )

Actually, I agree. I fukking HATE cars and I HATE most car drivers. They
are ignorant *ssholes who stuff their faces, put on makeup, and talk on
cellphones while they're supposed to be watching the road.

What I esp. hate is this society's INSISTENCE that everyone drive a car!

http://www.cars-suck.org

http://www.carfree.com



--
you laugh because i'm different....I
laugh because you're all the same.
___
Conformity is the disease...rebellion
is the cure.

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In article ,
HellonWheels writes:

What I esp. hate is this society's INSISTENCE that everyone drive a car!

Me too. That's why I've always resisted.

But I prefer to limit my hate to things that really deserve
it, like lima beans, or accidentally stepping in dog poo,
or getting white window envelopes with red ink stamped
on them in the post.

Hating people saps one's energy too much. Especially
when there's so much great summer weather to not let
go to waste.

Maybe it's better to dwell on things one likes, like
sunny days, bikeCulture, or finding a long-forgotten
$20 bill in a coat pocket in the closet.


cheers,
Tom

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Don Quijote wrote:
Well, it seems the combination of undertrained, careless drivers and
bicycles don't mix.
snipped
Another said Pastore told her something had flown into his eye. Another
saw a diabetic necklace dangling from his neck.



First, I'm new to this list and probably should pick a less contentious
issue to wade in with but here goes...

I'm a cyclist. I'm a driver. I'm a diabetic. That is probably why the
above selected note caught my eye. I just want to say that **if** the
driver in this case was a diabetic and **if** he was suffering from
hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), then this isn't a case of someone being
careless or undertrained. It is an accident.

It's hard to explain true hypoglycemia to someone who has never
experienced it but your brain just doesn't work. Some one can be talking
to you but you can't understand their words. In addition to a very awful
physical sensation, I find that the worst part is you can't think. If
this gentleman was suffering an hypo incident, it's not that he didn't
*see* the cyclists but registering what that meant might have been
beyond his capacities at the time.

I certainly wouldn't want to be driving a car, or my bike, if this
happened to me. I don't think about it a lot because I'm a very well
managed diabetic at this point in my life and I've only gone hypo once
in the last 10 years which was probably largely caused by the fact I was
pregnant at the time -- the physiology behind that reaction is just too
complicated to explain on this list.

I know there's a long standing argument that diabetics, particularly
insulin users, should be locked into cages and not allowed to do
anything, because they might go hypo and they *might* have an accident.
Naturally, it's not a position I agree with. I don't want to be locked
in a cage because my pancreas doesn't work as well as yours does. I live
a *normal* life because advances in medical technology over the past 20
years allow me live a *normal* life, including cycling.

I just think that before we start chucking words like "careless" around,
we need to know all the facts. If the man had a heart attack, would we
be so quick to call him "careless"?

I hope that everyone is all right and has recovered from their injuries.
Does anyone have an update on the story that might give us a clue to the
findings of the investigation?

Thanks

Kate



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In have never had trouble with a driver while riding. I think I know why. I had
this idea one day that maybe we should all think about.

When I ride, I ride as a person who is also a driver. When I drive, I drive as
a person who is also a rider.

To shorten it I just say. Ride as a driver and drive as a rider. I think it
causes you to see both sides when you are doing either activity.

I am about to go ride now. Man, I hope I didn't just jynx myself.

Brunswick_kate wrote in message ...
Don Quijote wrote:
Well, it seems the combination of undertrained, careless drivers and
bicycles don't mix.
snipped
Another said Pastore told her something had flown into his eye. Another
saw a diabetic necklace dangling from his neck.



First, I'm new to this list and probably should pick a less contentious
issue to wade in with but here goes...

I'm a cyclist. I'm a driver. I'm a diabetic. That is probably why the
above selected note caught my eye. I just want to say that **if** the
driver in this case was a diabetic and **if** he was suffering from
hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), then this isn't a case of someone being
careless or undertrained. It is an accident.

I don't even know the specifics of it, but the relevant point is that
the drivers license in America is a giveaway. Perhaps later in life
some make up for the fact of being *undertrained*, while most carry on
happily with their License to Kill...

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

On 11 Jul 2003, (null) wrote:

Some more hard numbers are available he
http://www.who.int/whr2001/2001/main.../annex2.en.pdf

under Category III Injuries: Road Traffic Accidents.


This contribution is irrelevant and innumerate. If you don't understand
statistics don't quote them.

The debate is about accidents to and deaths of cyclists and the
original comment implied that a comparison could be made between the
RATEs of deaths to cyclists in US and EU (which is the only useful way
to look at this)

However the statistics in the link supplied refer to ALL road accidents
and the figures are given as a proportion of total deaths in the country
from all causes. This is completely irrelevant. The only useful
statistic would be one which related cycling deaths or accidents to
bicycle usage (eg miles or hours travelled).

This is a serious question of public policy. In some parts of Germany
where (notional) cycle tracks exist cyclists are banned from the highway
leaving them with no effective route (eg if the cycle path is shared
with pedestrians meaning they can't keep up a decent pace).

I have seen local politicians in the UK exploit confusion over
statistics and risks to block perfectly safe reasonable proposals for
cycle provision (in one case forcing cyclists to use a highly unsafe
alternative route on a very busy highway junction) so we all have to be
very clear and specific about the facts behind our arguments. Anything
said on this forum could be picked up and used out of context by
planners and politicians looking for evidence to support cycling
restrictions.


best wishes from Sheffield, England. Home of some really bad cycle
planning. Chris



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