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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
QUOTE:
As quoted in last Saturday’s Echo I am very happy that new cycle paths around Southampton are being marked out meaning an increased amount of space for cyclists, I must remark though, sad as it is I am not an elected councillor. It is great that so many letters have been printed giving differing opinions on cycling and I am hoping that the city's transport plans now coming to fruition will overall benefit everyone. It is incredible that the two wheeled traveller can cause such a stir and not just be helped along the way with more encouragement. AD The latest suggestion from Bernie Pearce is that cyclists should be mandated to use cycle lanes if they are provided. Being an older cyclist I can probably stomach this one; I ride along at a sluggish pace and tend to be going at the correct speed to take those sharp inside turns dotted around the city. And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns; even if your left hand is jutting out far enough to make half your body look like a scarecrow, all while your other hand is braking and ringing the bell. The truth is there are still plenty of shared pedestrian and cycle paths and I hope that cyclists and pedestrians can have mutual respect. No doubt there will be at least one cycle club member reading this thinking ‘why sacrifice some of the road space just on Bernie Pearce’s proposal?’. And ‘am I not aware that most of the cycle lanes in the city are not designed to ride at 20mph, which is the more realistic speed a fit cyclist will be riding at? Well I think that there should be give and take and that if motorists are prepared to stop parking/crawling along cycle lanes, stop pulling up in the cycle lane boxes at traffic lights and refrain from pulling out in front of cyclists (knowing a cyclist is the most vulnerable in the situation), and ultimately pushing cyclists too close to the kerb; well then it might just be a fair sacrifice to make within the city. Outside the city the law of the jungle will still apply and cyclists will have to continue to assume that almost every driver is out to kill them. Oh and let us not forget, the real danger for cyclists and pedestrians are the motor vehicles where 99% of pedestrians killed in the EU were killed by a motor vehicle. If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement. Joe Cox Southampton https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/185...efit-everyone/ |
#2
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE: As quoted in last Saturday’s Echo I am very happy that new cycle paths around Southampton are being marked out meaning an increased amount of space for cyclists, I must remark though, sad as it is I am not an elected councillor. It is great that so many letters have been printed giving differing opinions on cycling and I am hoping that the city's transport plans now coming to fruition will overall benefit everyone. It is incredible that the two wheeled traveller can cause such a stir and not just be helped along the way with more encouragement. The latest suggestion from Bernie Pearce is that cyclists should be mandated to use cycle lanes if they are provided. Being an older cyclist I can probably stomach this one; I ride along at a sluggish pace and tend to be going at the correct speed to take those sharp inside turns dotted around the city. And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns; even if your left hand is jutting out far enough to make half your body look like a scarecrow, all while your other hand is braking and ringing the bell. The truth is there are still plenty of shared pedestrian and cycle paths and I hope that cyclists and pedestrians can have mutual respect. No doubt there will be at least one cycle club member reading this thinking ‘why sacrifice some of the road space just on Bernie Pearce’s proposal?’. And ‘am I not aware that most of the cycle lanes in the city are not designed to ride at 20mph, which is the more realistic speed a fit cyclist will be riding at? Well I think that there should be give and take and that if motorists are prepared to stop parking/crawling along cycle lanes, stop pulling up in the cycle lane boxes at traffic lights and refrain from pulling out in front of cyclists (knowing a cyclist is the most vulnerable in the situation), and ultimately pushing cyclists too close to the kerb; well then it might just be a fair sacrifice to make within the city. Outside the city the law of the jungle will still apply and cyclists will have to continue to assume that almost every driver is out to kill them. Oh and let us not forget, the real danger for cyclists and pedestrians are the motor vehicles where 99% of pedestrians killed in the EU were killed by a motor vehicle. If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement. Joe Cox Southampton https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/185...efit-everyone/ QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians. Traffic turning from one street into another MUST give way to a pedestrian already crossing the street into which the vehicle is turning. Failing to do so is an offence. "Street" is simply used here as a synonym for "thoroughfare" - a turn from any thoroughfare into any other thoroughfare. "Traffic" includes bicycles, whose riders are subject to far more legal restrictions than they want to admit, including the duty to give way to a pedestrian who is crossing a street into which the cyclist wishes to turn. In other words - shock! horror! oh, the humanity! - the cyclist must *stop* and *wait* for the pedestrian(s) to finish crossing. QUOTE: If the road traffic can successfully keep out of the cycle lanes then there is a good chance it won’t make it onto the pavement. ENDQUOTE Motor traffic hurtling along city footways ("pavements"), eh? Yeah, right. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote:
On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote: QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians... ....but knows the overriding directive not to run them over. It's not a law. #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass. I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules". Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention. I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely thought he had been the hero. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:
#170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Indeed. I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 28/06/2020 13:21, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote: #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Indeed. I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road. Of course you have. ;-) |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 14:29:43 GMT, JNugent
wrote: On 28/06/2020 13:21, Simon Mason wrote: On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote: #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Indeed. I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road. Of course you have. ;-) Are you saying a fully qualified driver would never do such a thing? -- Bah, and indeed, Humbug. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:21:02 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 11:34:29 AM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote: #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Indeed. I have lost count of the number of drivers who have come hurtling around a corner into a road that I am already crossing, foaming at the mouth, horns blaring and fist waving at me for having to slow down for a mere pedestrian in the road. Of course, none of them actually INDICATED their turn either! |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 28/06/2020 11:34, TMS320 wrote:
On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote: On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote: QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians... ...but knows the overriding directive not to run them over. Frightening pedestrians by riding straight at them or remonstrating with them when they have the right of way (but the cyclist at best appears not to know that) is unacceptable. I'm sure you will agree. At least, I hope you will. It's not a law. #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Even if that were true (it isn't), it wouild not be relevant. The "big boys do it" defence is not valid. A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass. I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules". Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention. I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely thought he had been the hero. Thanks for reinforcing my point. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 28/06/2020 15:29, JNugent wrote:
On 28/06/2020 11:34, TMS320 wrote: On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote: On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote: QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians... ...but knows the overriding directive not to run them over. Frightening pedestrians by riding straight at them or remonstrating with them when they have the right of way (but the cyclist at best appears not to know that) is unacceptable. I'm sure you will agree. At least, I hope you will. You're right. It is not acceptable to frighten pedestrians by driving one and a half tonnes or more at them. It's not a law. #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Even if that were true (it isn't), it wouild not be relevant. Don't be stupid. The "big boys do it" defence is not valid. Then you admit the big boys do it. Then big boys shouldn't point their finger. A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass. I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules". Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention. I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely thought he had been the hero. Thanks for reinforcing my point. You didn't make a point. |
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LETTER - Southampton's transport plan will benefit everyone
On 29/06/2020 07:47, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/06/2020 15:29, JNugent wrote: On 28/06/2020 11:34, TMS320 wrote: On 26/06/2020 10:57, JNugent wrote: On 25/06/2020 14:05, Simon Mason wrote: QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians... ...but knows the overriding directive not to run them over. Frightening pedestrians by riding straight at them or remonstrating with them when they have the right of way (but the cyclist at best appears not to know that) is unacceptable. I'm sure you will agree. At least, I hope you will. You're right. It is not acceptable to frighten pedestrians by driving one and a half tonnes or more at them. It's not a law. #170 Take extra care at junctions. You should ... give way. It's not difficult to notice most drivers don't have a clue. Even if that were true (it isn't), it wouild not be relevant. Don't be stupid. The "big boys do it" defence is not valid. Then you admit the big boys do it. Then big boys shouldn't point their finger. Which part of "even if it were true" were you unable to understand? A few months ago, I was behind another cyclist that I knew and we were about to turn left. There was a pedestrian on the pavement and he (the cyclist) slowed to let the pedestrian pass. I thought to myself "well done, someone that understands the rules". Moments later he spoke to me saying that he slowed down because the pedestrian didn't seem to be paying attention. I told him that he was supposed to give way when turning. He genuinely thought he had been the hero. Thanks for reinforcing my point. You didn't make a point. I had already made it. The original (cyclist) writer quoted by Simon plainly did not know that he is obliged, when turning from one street into another, to give way to pedestrians already dcrossing the street into which he is turning. QUOTE: And at around 12mph I have time to brake for pedestrians that seem to just ignore you on those left hand turns ENDQUOTE As I said at the beginning: "A clear indication that the writer does not know the law concerning turning traffic and pedestrians...". But he is a cyclist. As we are all aware, those parts of the Highway Code and the Road Traffic Acts that cyclists actually do know they just ignore anyway. |
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