Government Bicycle Program News

On 6/27/2020 5:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 1:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies. https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way! https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

So what are you objecting to, Jay? Instead of snarking, be specific.
Let's discuss.

I think those Cycling Savvy instructors need a parade permit -- and a diet plan.

OK, you've added body shaming to your repertoire of insults.
Congratulations.

You're a lawyer. Do they really need a parade permit? In my state and
most others, what they are doing is absolutely, perfectly legal.

In my state, motorists are legally required to give three feet passing
clearance. That means the lane those folks are riding in is too narrow
to safely share. In my state, the law specifically states a cyclist can
move away from the right edge if the lane is too narrow to safely share.
And my state, like most, says cyclists can ride "no more than two
abreast," meaning two abreast is permitted.

What part of that do you disagree with?

I ride around a lot of cyclists, and yet I have never seen a platoon so intent on "controlling traffic." Apparently, they're not going anywhere.

What makes you say they are not going anywhere?

They're just out to make some bizarre point. First position! Right phalanx to the fore! Double column formation on three! Signal right on my command!
Torpedoes los!

Or your apparent alternative:

"Ride in the gutter! Or skim the curb! We must not use our legal right
to the road! We must never delay a motorist, for they are inherently
superior to us!"

Really, though, the problem with this formation is that it makes it miserable for other cyclists who are going faster than, say, 12mph. You -- meaning me -- have to jump into the fast lane with a bunch of ****ed off cars and get around this band of nitwits. Been there and done that many times, except with 50mph traffic, which is not fun.

Oh, gosh, changing lanes _is_ such a burden! So is being delayed by -
what? - ten seconds or so?

Plus, they're all wearing helmets, signalling to the world that cycling is super-dangerous. And they have fluorescent shirts labeled "instructor," which is per se dopey.

Yes, they are all wearing helmets. And fluorescent shirts. I agree that
those are not needed.

See? I'll agree when you are being sensible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:54:27 UTC-4, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

John B.

I'd agree with that statement. Recreational cyclists ride their bikes
for fun and exercise. They do it because they want to. And most, almost
all, wear bicycle specific clothing to do it and ride newer style bikes.


So when I’m commuting to the office on my pretty new CF Tarmac with my
backpack on top of my bicycle specific kit does that make me a recreational
cyclist?

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

When I ride my bicycle and especially when I was using a bicycle* to
commute to work I was both a utility (transportaional) bicyclist and a
recreational/fitness bicyclist. My commute was used as a training ride
and I did lots of interval training on those rides. Often on the way
home I'd ride a longer route to enjoy scenery and to de-stress. That
would be a recreational bicyclist. Horrors of horrors, sometimes I'd even
pick up something at the store and that would make me a utility bicyclist.

It's possible to be many types of bicyclist on the same ride.


None of which has anything to do with what you are wearing, carrying or
riding.


Cheers

* this was a full on racing bicycle with no provision for the mounting of
fenders or racks. It was a bicycle that would have been at home in any of the Grand Tours.

On 6/26/2020 10:56 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip

Maybe yes and maybe no. My son objected to wearing a helmet a couple of times and groused about riding anywhere -- because it always involved a climb. Girls may be different about helmets.

Where Frank lives is a very different world than Seattle, Portland, or
the San Francisco Bay Area, in terms of demographics, education level,
and income.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:16:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 11:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:56:20 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank ever asked yourself why you provoke this kind of posts again and again?
From another thread:

'I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.'

Geezz....

What part do you object to? Like it or not, I have a reputation for
competence. Village cops know me. Many village and city residents know
of me. I've been the subject of several articles and interviews in local
media. I've served on quite a few relevant committees, taught classes,
written articles, etc.

Does all that offend you?


Oh My God! We hadn't been advised that you were such a famous person.

Thank you for letting us know so we can, from now on, treat you in the
manner in which you have been accustomed.

Will a simple inclination of the head be sufficient or will we have to
be on one knee in order to kiss the ring?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/27/2020 3:53 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Oh My God! We hadn't been advised that you were such a famous person.

Thank you for letting us know so we can, from now on, treat you in the
manner in which you have been accustomed.

Will a simple inclination of the head be sufficient or will we have to
be on one knee in order to kiss the ring?

Well you could at least address him as "your majesty."

Am Fri, 26 Jun 2020 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT) schrieb
" :

Just to add one more point to the index. In my neighborhood
I have noticed a lot of kids and old people riding bikes on
the street in front of my house.

In my neighborhood it's different. Around here, people of all ages are
riding bikes on the street in front of my house, young kids from four
years up, mostly accompanied by their parents, pupils of all ages,
university students, teachers, housewifes, office workers of all ages.
Today I noticed the husband of a secretary from a former jobs office,
who was about to retire thirty years ago. He must be over 90 now.


Window looking at street.

Same here.

In the afternoon. Likely/certainly due to the Covid-19. They
are at home and exercising or just moving about. Most, many
do have helmets.

I started counting today, saturday, at about nine o'clock in the
morning, for about half an hour at max. People start late an saturday,
here, sunny, but with a short summer shower.

23 people rode a normal bicyle in normal clothing, only two people on
bicycles wore helmets.

One additional person in the typical outfit on a race bike wore a
helmet.

From the two people riding motorized bicycles which are legally biycles
in Germany, one person was wearing a helme, the other one was not.

This surprised me somewhat. I'm retired, so instead of riding across
town to work, I do long rides (~70 km) through a recreational park and
forest and then over the countryside. When I started counting helmets
about 25 years ago, essentially nobody wore a helmet, meaning less then
one percent of all bicyclist you met, both when looking out of the
window or when counting while riding 12 km to work.

But just from watching people on my current recreational rides, not
counting, but just watching, I got the impression that perhaps half or
even "most" bicylists now wear helmets.

That's not impressive, given the fact that we've got a permanent
bombardement with pro-helmet-propaganda during these 25 years. You
couldn't find a single pediatricians waiting room without some pamphlet

Every pediatrician had some pamphlets on the waiting room desk, which
contained safety tips for cycling. In every case, helmets were mentioned
in the first place, before any really important recommendations such as
effective brakes or correct size of the bike. FUn fact: even on the
entrance to the autobahn, where bicycles are strictly verboten, there
was a sign stating that cyclists are encouraged to wear a helmet.

All this long-standing propaganda did convinced only about half of all
cyclists to use helmets.

Or so I thought. But I was wrong.

There are three groups who bought into the helmet religion early:

- the busybodies

- the "serious cyclists" who do sports

- the inexperienced and newcomers


The busybodies do it because it's their mission or because it means
business.

The serious cyclists do it, because their role models, the real racers,
do it. These in turn do it, because their federation and club officials
said so. Why? Because the sponsors want it, and sponsors get what they
want.

The inexperienced just do what their bicyle shop owner said, confirmed
what they read when waiting for the pediatrician. The bicycle owner
sold them a helmet, because, well, you know, there isn't that much
profit margin anymore, when just selling a bicycle only. Add-on business
is important, especially when selling fragile plastic foam.

I'm quite sure that those three groups are heavily overrepresented in
the sample I meet on my current rides. This is visible by the difference
in peoples outfits and bikes. In the recreational areas I see a much
higher percentage of motorized bicyles, more old and young people,
people who either don't work anymore or haven't started, yet, more
warning vests, more helmets, more incompetent behaviour, slower riding
and so on. Out in the lands, on the coutryside, on the road, most of
these people are missing, here the busybodies and the "serious cyclists"
(club riders and people like me, but in full ornate, are the majority.

What I see when looking out of the window or when walking or riding
around town, I see mostly people who are very much underrepresented
during my recreational rides: the utility cyclists in the broadest
possible meaning of the term. These are the people who just use the
bicylce as a means to an end, for transporting something from A to B, to
get from here to there.

My adhoc count, which certainly isn't representative in any way,
suggests that 25 years of propaganda didn't succeed in convincing more
than about one in ten cyclists.

Just like it didn't convince any of the pedestrians, I might add.





Parents walking on sidewalk with kids
riding on sidewalk in front.

That's the really funny part: even here, that usually means that the
person most at risk of suffering a dangerous brain injury from a fall
does _not_ wear a helmet.



Old people with old people
style bikes riding on street. They do NOT fit Frank's
definition of recreational, stylish cyclist.

Around here, those old people who wear helmets fit Jay Beatties
impression of what a bicycling busybody is:

https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/7776708076_6d8a1289d0_k-1030x773.jpg

It's just another style. Some of these do utility cycling (in the broad
sense), most do not.


They look
pretty much identical to people you would see walking around
in a store.

People walking around in a store mostly don't wear funny plastic hats in
my towon or country. Those who do most often either wear a warning vest
in crying neon, too, or barely can walk, because, well, SPD shoes is
something for loosers.


NO cycling specific clothing. My state does not
have a mandatory helmet law for bicycles, or motorcycles.

Germany doesn't have a mandatory helmet law for biyclists, but has one
for motorcycles, for a very long time. But that is a different story.
Motorcycle helmets do have a specific use case that bicycle helmets do
not, and they have some practical advantages.

Btw., we don't have a mandatory helmet law for stairs, either.


I
assume the dead helmetless motorcycle riders are a great
source of organ donations.


Nobody rides a motorcycle without wearing a helmet, around here.

Nine years ago, after a serious bicycle accident, I was under
observation in the emergency room of the university hospital to see if a
rib splinter had punctured the lungs. Right next to me lay a young
motorcyclist in coma, separated only by a Spanish wall of cloth. Two
doctors who didn't see me briefly discussed the case, the girl probably
wouldn't survive. She died that night. It's not nice to lie next to a
young dying person.

Your sayings are disgusting.


--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:55:48 PM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sat, 27 Jun 2020 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT) schrieb jbeattie
:

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing
(whatever normal might mean).

Around here, normal clothes are what people usually wear. It depends on
their personal perferences, weather, and on what they are going to do
when they got to their destination.

When I cycle to the nearby bathing lake, I wear something different than
when I drive a few broken roof tiles to the garbage dump and again
something else when I ride to the opera on the utility bike. On sunny
summer days, I see young girls in airy summer dresses driving by on
their bikes. From time to time, a teenager rides here for sports, in a
judo suit, by bicycle. Same with football clothing.

We wear tweed. http://tweedpdx.net/ Or nothing at all.

If I rode to the opera in a suit, I'd have to do 500 feet of climbing to get home -- in a suit. Just riding a few miles in my work clothes to run errands at lunch or go to the doctor, I get back to the office, and I'm a sweaty wreck or rain soaked. I had one job where I rode to work in my nice slacks, and I wore holes in them. Waste of good slacks. I wear normal clothes to run over to the store, assuming I don't walk or drive. But anything more than three or four miles, I wear cycling clothes.


Quite often, people just wear the standard US uniform, jeans + t-shirt,
that is, when shopping or when doing what they do to make a living.
Some even wear a business suit.

I switched to more functional clothing for my ride, as both distance and
speed became above average. But this in no way resembles the outfit
shown below.



I make fun of the officious
cycling busybodies.
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg
Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way!
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

So do I. The German term for that outfit is noodle sieve and insane vest
("Nudelsieb und Wahnweste"). The latter one is a pun based on warning
vest == Warnweste, which sound quite similar, especially when it's
pronounced sloppily.



And I'm fully qualified to criticize those other cyclists,
being that I'm a fifth degree Black Belt in Quantum Cycling
Dynamics with over seventeen instructor certifications from
the League of Extraordinary Bicyclists. I have the gold
patch with clusters!

And I am still the Road Master for my bicycling club,
which is filled with incompetents who rely on me for
basically everything.

Oh yes. Judging from how you tried to make fun of one of my old and
worn bikes, which served me well for many years of intense use as a
randonneur, commuter bike and general purpose utility bike, just by
looking at an snapshot photo, I wouldn't like to depend on your help,
thank you very much. Fortunately, I am able to distinguish essential
defects from irrelevant cosmetic details and have done most of the
repairs and modifications on my bikes myself, without a need for help.

Gee, it's not like I spoke ill of your dead aunt. Your bike looked like it had been ignored for years. If I knew you were so emotionally attached, I would have said something different like, "Oh, what a darling bike. I'm sure it would enjoy a nice a bath -- and maybe a new fender and some other maintenance items."



At night, they all have
non-functioning lights and rely on my blazing 3W dyno light
to lead the way.

Great. Call me impressed. In Germany, most bicycles which aren't race
bikes or similar nowadays come with LED lights powered by a hub dyno
which delives 3W or more.

Uh, this is a joke.


The bike you made fun of ("looks like a dumpster find") by looking at a
photo taken in autumn 2007 didn't have a hub generator then, because
head- and taillight where driven by a lead/acid battery, so the bottle
dynamo just served as a somewhat unreliable backup.

But the bike got a hub dynamo during the Cristmas holidays, when I
finally found the time. It even got two of them, because I built two
sets of wheels, one for summer and one for winter.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/winterrad/P1050728.jpg is a
picture of that bike from 2007-12-23, with the Continental Top Contact
Winter mounted. The headlamp is an automatic BUMM LED headlamp ("LUMOTEC
IQ Fly", the very first approved LED headlight in Germany at that time.)

That bike got quite some modifications since 1996. Last time I asked,
that lamp shown above and the generator are still doing well.

And I built a CR18 rim on a SPPD 8 dyno hub with a disc brake, all of which I've stripped off the bike for summer. And on top of that, my commuter is mostly sitting in my garage because I'm working from home. If I need a light, I slap on my all-in-one.


Just the other day, one of our members
showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in
pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his
handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him.
Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

An I am astounded by what you wrote in


People _using_ there bikes in everyday life, instead of polishing them
for posing don't care that much about look. Quite to the contrary, some
even make some effort to get that dirty "dumpster look".

Personally, I don't care either way. I avoid parking bicycles out of my
control if possible, so theft or vandalism wasn't a problem, most of the
time. A bicycle is a tool, just like a car or a camera. If a scratch or
dirt is just cosmetics, who cares?

Honest traces of use honor the tool.

Wow, you were really hurt. I'm sorry. If somebody told me my commuter looked like POS. I'd just go "meh" and not be emotionally upset. And about honoring the tool, I've broken so many bikes it would make your head spin. I honor the hell out of my bikes.

I was honoring my racing bike today. I'm going to honor my gravel bike tomorrow. I'll be all dressed up in bike clothes because tweed makes me itch.

I'm trying to get my friends interested in Bennett Pass:
https://ridewithgps.com/photos/962861/large.jpg On that same road: https://allthoughtsworkoutdoors3.fil...er2.jpg?w=1168 You have to watch for the 4wheelers, so I'll wear my fluorescent "instructor" shirt.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, 27 June 2020 18:53:25 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:16:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 11:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:56:20 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank ever asked yourself why you provoke this kind of posts again and again?
From another thread:

'I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.'

Geezz....

What part do you object to? Like it or not, I have a reputation for
competence. Village cops know me. Many village and city residents know
of me. I've been the subject of several articles and interviews in local
media. I've served on quite a few relevant committees, taught classes,
written articles, etc.

Does all that offend you?


Oh My God! We hadn't been advised that you were such a famous person.

Thank you for letting us know so we can, from now on, treat you in the
manner in which you have been accustomed.

Will a simple inclination of the head be sufficient or will we have to
be on one knee in order to kiss the ring?
--
cheers,

John B.

He's omnipotent too. After all he can tell from Ohio what drivers in Ontario Canada will or will not do in a given situation and then will mock you if you bail onto the shoulder of the road to avoid being run down from behind by a transport truck. He'll call you a scardy cat and say you shouldn't be riding on the road. He can also see whether or not your head would hit the pavement in a high speed crash if you are wearing a helmet. His stance is that if you weren't wearing the helmet your head would not have hit the pavement.

I could look up the relevant posts but I'm not going to bother just to argue with a Troll.

Cheers

On Saturday, 27 June 2020 18:37:31 UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:54:27 UTC-4, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

John B.

I'd agree with that statement. Recreational cyclists ride their bikes
for fun and exercise. They do it because they want to. And most, almost
all, wear bicycle specific clothing to do it and ride newer style bikes.


So when I’m commuting to the office on my pretty new CF Tarmac with my
backpack on top of my bicycle specific kit does that make me a recreational
cyclist?

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

When I ride my bicycle and especially when I was using a bicycle* to
commute to work I was both a utility (transportaional) bicyclist and a
recreational/fitness bicyclist. My commute was used as a training ride
and I did lots of interval training on those rides. Often on the way
home I'd ride a longer route to enjoy scenery and to de-stress. That
would be a recreational bicyclist. Horrors of horrors, sometimes I'd even
pick up something at the store and that would make me a utility bicyclist.

It's possible to be many types of bicyclist on the same ride.


None of which has anything to do with what you are wearing, carrying or
riding.


Cheers

* this was a full on racing bicycle with no provision for the mounting of
fenders or racks. It was a bicycle that would have been at home in any of the Grand Tours.


I ride what I like, when I like and wear what I like when I like and use the bike for my purposes. I don't care what Frank or others think. I often think a few of them are armchair bicyclists who contrary to their postings, actually ride very little or do so only in very low traffic areas.

Cheers

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:56:04 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

Handlebars on backwards? Please provide some more details. Did he have the bars on so the ends were pointed toward the front wheel, but still have the tops on top, and the hooks on the bottom? Just turn the bars 180 degrees left to right.

It was a riff on Franks numerous comments about his mechanically incompetent club cohorts. But in my imagination, they were backwards and upside down.

-- Jay Beattie.