Suntour Alpha Freewheel ?

- Bob - wrote:

What was the Alpha line? Would a 7-speed use standard (ultra)7 speed
spacing?

Yes, almost certainly. Suntour made no 7 speeds spaced wider than "ultra".

Are the parts interchangeable with the same flexibility of
the winner and winner pro cogs ?

Don't know but strongly suspect so. SunTour was no inclined to make a
new design when an older one would do.

Mark Janeba

- Bob - wrote:
What was the Alpha line? Would a 7-speed use standard (ultra)7 speed
spacing?
Are the parts interchangeable with the same flexibility of the winner
and winner pro cogs ?

Mark Janeba wrote:
Yes, almost certainly. Suntour made no 7 speeds spaced wider than "ultra".
Don't know but strongly suspect so. SunTour was no inclined to make a
new design when an older one would do.

Alpha was an attempt to get Ultra Seven to a lower price
point. The high gear cog is different and cheaper to make
than on a Winner/WinnerPro. The body shows much less care
and the finish provided more savings. Most cogs will mount
on either body.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

- Bob - wrote:
What was the Alpha line? Would a 7-speed use standard (ultra)7 speed
spacing?
Are the parts interchangeable with the same flexibility of the winner
and winner pro cogs ?

Mark Janeba wrote:
Yes, almost certainly. Suntour made no 7 speeds spaced wider than "ultra".
Don't know but strongly suspect so. SunTour was no inclined to make a
new design when an older one would do.

Alpha was an attempt to get Ultra Seven to a lower price
point. The high gear cog is different and cheaper to make
than on a Winner/WinnerPro. The body shows much less care
and the finish provided more savings. Most cogs will mount
on either body.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

- Bob - wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:32:18 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:


- Bob - wrote:

What was the Alpha line? Would a 7-speed use standard (ultra)7 speed
spacing?
Are the parts interchangeable with the same flexibility of the winner
and winner pro cogs ?

Mark Janeba wrote:

Yes, almost certainly. Suntour made no 7 speeds spaced wider than "ultra".
Don't know but strongly suspect so. SunTour was no inclined to make a
new design when an older one would do.

Alpha was an attempt to get Ultra Seven to a lower price
point. The high gear cog is different and cheaper to make
than on a Winner/WinnerPro. The body shows much less care
and the finish provided more savings. Most cogs will mount
on either body.


Andrew:

What could they do to make the cog cheaper ? Skip the bevels on
the backside of the teeth? No weight reduction slots ? I can see the
color/finish difference - I imagine not plating them added some
savings. Did it affect longevity ? Do these wear well ?


An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Alpha freewheels have a plain black phosphate finish, not
chromed like the Winner series. But not shoddy. I never
noticed premature wear on Alphas.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

- Bob - wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:32:18 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:


- Bob - wrote:

What was the Alpha line? Would a 7-speed use standard (ultra)7 speed
spacing?
Are the parts interchangeable with the same flexibility of the winner
and winner pro cogs ?

Mark Janeba wrote:

Yes, almost certainly. Suntour made no 7 speeds spaced wider than "ultra".
Don't know but strongly suspect so. SunTour was no inclined to make a
new design when an older one would do.

Alpha was an attempt to get Ultra Seven to a lower price
point. The high gear cog is different and cheaper to make
than on a Winner/WinnerPro. The body shows much less care
and the finish provided more savings. Most cogs will mount
on either body.


Andrew:

What could they do to make the cog cheaper ? Skip the bevels on
the backside of the teeth? No weight reduction slots ? I can see the
color/finish difference - I imagine not plating them added some
savings. Did it affect longevity ? Do these wear well ?


An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Alpha freewheels have a plain black phosphate finish, not
chromed like the Winner series. But not shoddy. I never
noticed premature wear on Alphas.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Bob wrote:
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:47:16 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:


An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Was the Alpha a non-Ultra 7 speed since it was part of a "new"
indexed system i.e. it's a 130mm 7 speed ?

You're making this too complicated. All 7 speed freewheels
have "Ultra" i.e. narrow spacing, about 5.0mm cog-to-cog,
as opposed to previous non-ultra spacing.
(There are some where a few of the cogs are slightly closer
together, like 0.2mm or some other minute difference. If you
do care, IIRC that's the distinction between Accushift and
Accushift Plus, something dinosaurs discussed while sitting
around at coffee break wondering what mischief those little
furry animals were getting into.)

130mm or 126mm doesn't enter into it. That is the hub width.
A 7 speed freewheel has the same spacing whether screwed onto
either kind of hub.

The difference was in 6-speed freewheels, since there are
both wide and narrow (Ultra) versions of _those_. Ultra-6
freewheels fit into 120mm rear spacing, which was the standard
before the mass extinction at the close of the Permian era.

Bob wrote:
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:47:16 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:


An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Was the Alpha a non-Ultra 7 speed since it was part of a "new"
indexed system i.e. it's a 130mm 7 speed ?

You're making this too complicated. All 7 speed freewheels
have "Ultra" i.e. narrow spacing, about 5.0mm cog-to-cog,
as opposed to previous non-ultra spacing.
(There are some where a few of the cogs are slightly closer
together, like 0.2mm or some other minute difference. If you
do care, IIRC that's the distinction between Accushift and
Accushift Plus, something dinosaurs discussed while sitting
around at coffee break wondering what mischief those little
furry animals were getting into.)

130mm or 126mm doesn't enter into it. That is the hub width.
A 7 speed freewheel has the same spacing whether screwed onto
either kind of hub.

The difference was in 6-speed freewheels, since there are
both wide and narrow (Ultra) versions of _those_. Ultra-6
freewheels fit into 120mm rear spacing, which was the standard
before the mass extinction at the close of the Permian era.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:47:16 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:
An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Bob wrote:
Was the Alpha a non-Ultra 7 speed since it was part of a "new"
indexed system i.e. it's a 130mm 7 speed ?

Although I'm some bikes may have shipped with both Alpha and
130mm ( and some brands in the era shipped at 128mm)
Suntour's 1990 book (p60) shows both Alpha Seven and Winner
Seven freewheels both requiring 7.3mm chain, 126mm OLD, 37mm
of freewheel thread base to locknut and both as fully index
interchangeable.



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:47:16 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:
An Alpha high gear is a simple threaded cog. The
Winner/Winner Pro Seven ends in two threaded cogs, one of
which has double threads. The body is also more complex to
machine than the simple Alpha pattern.

Bob wrote:
Was the Alpha a non-Ultra 7 speed since it was part of a "new"
indexed system i.e. it's a 130mm 7 speed ?

Although I'm some bikes may have shipped with both Alpha and
130mm ( and some brands in the era shipped at 128mm)
Suntour's 1990 book (p60) shows both Alpha Seven and Winner
Seven freewheels both requiring 7.3mm chain, 126mm OLD, 37mm
of freewheel thread base to locknut and both as fully index
interchangeable.



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971