More on tools

Op zaterdag 10 april 2021 om 16:21:46 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit.

Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were
discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread
diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to
specify with your unit conversions.

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware
since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some
sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have
Whitworth stuff.

Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear
ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They
used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to
deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a
mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of
UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my
Series IIa.
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html

Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html
I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded
fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To
identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to
the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be
the most frequently used chart in my work area.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Pfff.. really. I have no chart hanging in my 'Workshop', never needed one. Its M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M10 or M12 and I can indentify them by just looking at them and then I also know what wrench, allen key or torx bit to use. It the very rare case I end up with other fasteners the part end up in the garbage bin.

Lou

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported
into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began
sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the
Range Rover towed when it broke down.

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 8:04:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op zaterdag 10 april 2021 om 16:21:46 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit.

Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were
discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread
diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to
specify with your unit conversions.

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware
since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some
sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have
Whitworth stuff.

Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear
ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They
used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to
deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a
mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of
UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my
Series IIa.
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html

Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html
I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded
fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To
identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to
the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be
the most frequently used chart in my work area.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Pfff.. really. I have no chart hanging in my 'Workshop', never needed one.. Its M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M10 or M12 and I can indentify them by just looking at them and then I also know what wrench, allen key or torx bit to use. It the very rare case I end up with other fasteners the part end up in the garbage bin.

That is certainly true of my bicycle "workshop." With bikes, your options are pretty limited in terms of fasteners, and many of the fasteners are part specific, so you just look at them and know what works with what -- and typically you order specific replacements and don't pick one out of a bolt drawer at home or at the hardware store. I do measure OD of plumbing parts and then check on line for pipe thread size. https://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Fi...es-threads.pdf

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 11:32:28 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip
Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.
One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported
into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began
sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the
Range Rover towed when it broke down.

Huh. I've watched a few National Geographic shows over the past half century and all of them showed Range Rovers and Land Cruisers driving around the Sahara or Burma. Vehicles that looked like they had been in service since Japan or England conquered and subjugated the land and people. I always thought of Range Rovers as being reliable. When you are driving across Africa with lions and elephants and water buffalo chasing you, reliability is kind of important.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:32:27 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported
into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began
sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the
Range Rover towed when it broke down.

Chuckle. My former palatial office was conveniently located near a
freeway off ramp. Therefore, my office was regularly visited by
friends and customers (the difference is that the customers actually
pay me) for emergency automobile service, usually late at night, when
they knew I would still be working. The usual problems were flat
tires, cooling system problems, and blown fuses. One such visitor
arrived with a rather old Range Rover that I expressed an interest in
purchasing. It literally fell apart as it entered the parking lot.
There was hardware and fluids all over the road. It's common
knowledge that a British car that does NOT leak fluids has something
wrong with it, but this was ridiculous. I wasted two days patching
together the Range Rover so that it could be safely driven to a
mechanic. For obvious reasons, I elected not to buy it.

As for towing a Land Rover (not a Range Rover), I drove it about
150,000 miles and only needed to be towed once (when I drove it into a
ditch). What I found amazing was the number of parts that could fall
off the Land Rover, and it would continue to run. I was also not
thrilled with having to spend every Saturday under the car fixing
something.

It seems that early Land Rovers were built in layers. When a problem
was discovered, a suitable band-aid was contrived to hide the problem.
It was probably considered sacrilege to admit to a design problem,
much less to fix it. My favorite example was a metal "heat shield"
that was installed between the spark plugs and the firewall. Getting
access to the spark plugs was possible, but would have been much
easier if the heat shield was removed. So, I removed it. Nothing
happened until I reached about 45 mph, when the engine compartment
transformed itself into a rather loud giant whistle or flute.
Apparently, the "heat shield" was not a heat shield but rather a
method of detuning the acoustic resonance of the engine compartment.

Despite all the horror stories, I really miss my 1970 Land Rover
Series IIa. It turned driving and commuting into an adventure.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/land_rover1.jpg
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/index.html#land_rover3.jpg
Sniff...

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/10/2021 9:54 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

That is certainly true of my bicycle "workshop." With bikes, your options are pretty limited in terms of fasteners, and many of the fasteners are part specific, so you just look at them and know what works with what -- and typically you order specific replacements and don't pick one out of a bolt drawer at home or at the hardware store. I do measure OD of plumbing parts and then check on line for pipe thread size. https://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Fi...es-threads.pdf

We have an awesome fastener store near me, Olander
https://www.olander.com/. Very old school, no online ordering. You
used to be able to just go to the sales desk and buy what you want but
they're closed for in-person sales due to Covid. So you have to submit a
quote online and someone calls you back with the pricing and then you
send them your credit card information and do a pick-up in the parking
lot. A few years ago they got tired of non-commercial customers ordering
extremely small quantities so they now have a $5 per line-item requirement.

I really like the M5 Cup Washer Head bolts for things like water bottle
cages and racks, even though they are not Allen head.

On 4/10/2021 10:10 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 11:32:28 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip
Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.
One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported
into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began
sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the
Range Rover towed when it broke down.

Huh. I've watched a few National Geographic shows over the past half century and all of them showed Range Rovers and Land Cruisers driving around the Sahara or Burma. Vehicles that looked like they had been in service since Japan or England conquered and subjugated the land and people. I always thought of Range Rovers as being reliable. When you are driving across Africa with lions and elephants and water buffalo chasing you, reliability is kind of important.

The Range Rovers exported to the U.S. where MTVs, not SUVs. MTV=Mall
Terrain Vehicle.

On 4/10/2021 9:37 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 7:21:46 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/9/2021 11:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 19:26:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

By the way you ignorant fool. 3/32 is 4 mm, 13/64ths is 5 mm and 15/64ths is 6 mm - the most common metric sizes and which is in any complete English tool kit.

Ummm... the thread size and driver size are very different. We were
discussing Torx drivers, which has nothing to do with the thread
diameter, Allen wrench driver size, or whatever you neglected to
specify with your unit conversions.

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

That's odd that a 1970 Land Rover would still have Whitworth hardware
since it was effectively phased out in 1956. Must have been some
sub-systems that stayed the same for decades in order to still have
Whitworth stuff.

Not really odd. Land Rover bought bolt on gearboxes, front ends, rear
ends, transfer boxes, PTO gearboxes, etc from multiple vendors. They
used whatever the vendor provided. I was lucky that I only had to
deal with British Standard Whitworth (BSW). Earlier models also had a
mix of BSW, BSF, BSC, UNC, UNF, BA, etc. Later models were a mix of
UNF and metric. I don't recall which parts used BSW fasteners on my
Series IIa.
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spanner%20size.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.spanners.html
https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html

Regarding https://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Other.threads.html
I've got a really handy chart hanging in my workshop. It covers threaded
fasteners in Metric, U.S. and British systems, sorted by diameter. To
identify a screw I measure the OD and scan down the chart, then read to
the right to find the possibilities, including thread pitches. It may be
the most frequently used chart in my work area.

Perhaps you can remind me since I've forgotten, but isn't thread count counted in inches? i.e. A British BB thread is 24 threads per inch but so is an Italian BB. Thinking back the differences were in the threads with Italian threads being triangular and British flattened on the top.


Yes, historically Italy was an early mover to
industrialization, adopting metric diameters but with
British made lathes 55-degree Whitworth form (sinusoid; not
pointy) inch threads.

Metric threads are formally 'advancement', that is, how far
it moves per revolution. I have no idea why that makes any
more sense than measuring peak to peak which is the same number.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/10/2021 12:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:32:27 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/9/2021 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Also, the complete English tool kit for my former 1970 Land Rover IIa
required a few British Whitworth standard wrenches and sockets. The
Land Rover was mostly metric, but did include some SAE and Whitworth
hardware.

One of my friend's brother-in-law bought the first Range Rover imported
into the U.S. back in 1987. He was so proud of this. Eventually he began
sharing a map of all the places in the U.S. where he had to have the
Range Rover towed when it broke down.

Chuckle. My former palatial office was conveniently located near a
freeway off ramp. Therefore, my office was regularly visited by
friends and customers (the difference is that the customers actually
pay me) for emergency automobile service, usually late at night, when
they knew I would still be working. The usual problems were flat
tires, cooling system problems, and blown fuses. One such visitor
arrived with a rather old Range Rover that I expressed an interest in
purchasing. It literally fell apart as it entered the parking lot.
There was hardware and fluids all over the road. It's common
knowledge that a British car that does NOT leak fluids has something
wrong with it, but this was ridiculous. I wasted two days patching
together the Range Rover so that it could be safely driven to a
mechanic. For obvious reasons, I elected not to buy it.

As for towing a Land Rover (not a Range Rover), I drove it about
150,000 miles and only needed to be towed once (when I drove it into a
ditch). What I found amazing was the number of parts that could fall
off the Land Rover, and it would continue to run. I was also not
thrilled with having to spend every Saturday under the car fixing
something.

It seems that early Land Rovers were built in layers. When a problem
was discovered, a suitable band-aid was contrived to hide the problem.
It was probably considered sacrilege to admit to a design problem,
much less to fix it. My favorite example was a metal "heat shield"
that was installed between the spark plugs and the firewall. Getting
access to the spark plugs was possible, but would have been much
easier if the heat shield was removed. So, I removed it. Nothing
happened until I reached about 45 mph, when the engine compartment
transformed itself into a rather loud giant whistle or flute.
Apparently, the "heat shield" was not a heat shield but rather a
method of detuning the acoustic resonance of the engine compartment.

Despite all the horror stories, I really miss my 1970 Land Rover
Series IIa. It turned driving and commuting into an adventure.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/land_rover1.jpg
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/index.html#land_rover3.jpg
Sniff...


With 150,000 miles you likely knew this but for others,
here's a reminder to use the proper maintenance products:

https://www.orarc.org/?p=2348

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 14:46:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

With 150,000 miles you likely knew this but for others,
here's a reminder to use the proper maintenance products:

https://www.orarc.org/?p=2348

Also see:
https://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html
http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

Chuckle. Very clever. However, Lucas Electric solved the problem for
me at about 100,000 miles by detonating the EOL (end of life) smoke
signal simultaneously in the generator, regulator, dashboard wiring,
about 6 fuses, some lamps, and my 144/440MHz radio. Basically, the
alternator output went from 12V nominal, to a much higher voltage.
Despite the extensive damage, I was able to add enough clip leads and
wires to drive the car home before the battery died. While waiting
for a wiring harness from Atlantic British, I decided that the Lucas
electrical hardware was hopeless. So, I dropped in a Motorola
alternator/regulator. After fixing my wiring errors, I was back on
the road in about 2 weeks (including shipping delays).

Unfortunately, I didn't have the time, money, or sense to also replace
the Lucas points, ignition coil, capacitor, RFI filters, etc with an
electronic ignition. Those failed just at about 140,000 miles in a
rather large puff of black rubbery smoke. I managed to push the car
out of the gas station before the attendant was about to spray my car
with whatever was in the ominous looking canister he was wielding. The
subsequent installation of the electronic ignition was a bit of a
kludge, but it worked well and never failed.

I also replaced the carburetor with a larger Rochester carb, asbestos
drum brakes with something less toxic, and rear seats with something
compatible with garbage hauling. The spare tire on the hood was
iconic but blocked my view. I moved the tire to the rear door.
However, these defficiencies could not be blamed on Lucas.

Replacing all the Lucas electrical parts in the vehicle would have
been uneconomical and time consuming. So, I continued to repair or
replace light switches, receptacles, rotten wiring, ignition switch,
etc until I blew the transmission and sold it as-is. I'm not sure of
the final mileage, but I think it around 200,000 miles. I never heard
from the buyer so I assume everything went well. Judging by our final
discussion, he probably parted it out.

Sniff...



--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558