suggestions for clinchers for the boards?

Bleve Wrote:


Interestingly, it doesn't say why, which rings my 'myth' alarm.
Otherwise, it's a good page, and thanks for the reference.
yeah, the "myth" factor ....I guess in the abscence of science on the
point eliminating the myth or adjusting to a comfort level with a
potential myth brings back to each of us the "process" of determining
what we are comfortable with and prepared to eliminate or accept for our
own riding.
Its the outcome of the process here that interests me and what I've
endured to get a tyre type and pattern I accept for me, were Ive found
trouble and success .. my case study is obviously small with a cohort
of just a few, and the protocol certainly unsophisticated and not
randomised and certainly not done as a double blind...etc etc...

So, after trial and error, slipping and sliding and seeing others come
to grief and asking them why and checking out set ups etc...after all
that , now, I'm just happy to go with a fine tread pattern on the
boards over slicks .

Fine for me is defined as similar to a medium grade sandpaper with
roughing or a semi diamond pattern , but sticky or grabby when you rub
your hand across it....(keeping tyres clean of dust and oils is a given
too)..the boards arent completely smooth, they have planking joins and
glue joins and repair patches, gauges etc, all can be used to get grip
and/or add friction...plus you need somthing robust enough to resist
puncture from foreign objects, splinters and crud.

its looking for a reasonable performance /cost ratio ...in fact I have
one tyre...a Challenge pista tub which has a very slick shoulder and
narrow fine tread in the middle ( weird ...thought it would be the
other way around)mounted it on the rear of one of my Campag high flange
Mavic CD2Mach2 rims but it slips on the shoulder in the bends at
critical speed (ie slower) slips right where the slick is, compound
isnt sticky enough there I guess, but at speed and in all the bends for
a flying 200 or persuit, keirin or scratch race it is perfect.

others may wish to go full slick hi tech compound and play around with
what finally works, (with a sponsor paying the bills)...

as mentioned early, I'm certainly not chasing 1/10ths here and 1/100ths
there, ...the farm isnt on the outcome, I try to stay safe and keep the
wits about what I'm doing on the boards....so I dont give a fig about
top end or bling for that matter...when it doesnt really figure.

I have fun and enjoy, stay safe and best of all when its fun and its a
buzz and the smile gets huge , the pizza afterwards is even more
fantastic...

if there is a myth factor...so be it... its probably so insignificant
here that "Mythbusters" would happily drink to it.

As for the actual track tyres in the bags in current use a

for general velo training-Vittoria Competiton Atlantas (8-9 Bar)( a
yuck yellow which shows the DISC dirt, for high speed sprints -
Vittoria Pista EVO CS (10-15 bar) in Black , for basic Training and
enduro- Vittoria Pista CS (8-12 Bar) in Black or Challenge Pista PPS
8/9 Bar in Black, On the outdoor track Speed( by Challenge) Cefira HPs
8.5 Bar in Black and Wolbe Road Tubs 9 Bar in Black or Deming Bank Tub
9 bar in Black .

Finest tread is the Challenge a semi slick, then the Vittoria Pista EVO
CS then the Pista CS then the Atlantas. The outdoors are all a bit
rougher and thicker in the headwith and at least 23 to give more bag
over the roughs.

why so many?...in case of flats, I would rather change a wheel and ride
on than go home... I dont like the drive to DISC so when I'm there...
I'm there...


so for some ( yeah finally...just about done.) ...HPs could be the best
choice where changing a tube is much more enjoyable, to the pocket and
the time spent on the boards, than having a backup supply of tubs on
hand...


cheers all...


--
rooman

warrwych Wrote:
Doesn't it say you will slip?????
_two_quotes_

-"-
- For Calshot (and other indoor tracks I expect, Tim Knight (a Calshot
track coach) says that *'any file pattern type is generally OK, but
slicks are a no-no'."*-

and

" Denise Hampson*-*-Denise is the Welsh Queen of Speed, second in this
years National Sprint, Keirin, and 500 Time Trial and a rider who has
represented her country of Wales (2002 Commonwealth Games) and Great
Britain. I asked her about the bike she rides, a Terry Dolan. Tyres: "I
use Continentals 165s for training and the French hand made Andre Dugast
for racing. Both are 23mm tubulars. She says "I dislike 19mm tubs
because they don't roll as well". And she had a word of warning --
*beware of using the popular slick road tyres Michelin Axial High
Pressures on tracks like Manchester. She recalls that as soon as she
did use them on the track, the slick tyres had her sliding right back
off the track again! "*-


--
rooman

rooman Wrote:
_two_quotes_

-"-
- For Calshot (and other indoor tracks I expect, Tim Knight (a Calshot
track coach) says that *'any file pattern type is generally OK, but
slicks are a no-no'."*-

and

" Denise Hampson*-*-Denise is the Welsh Queen of Speed, second in this
years National Sprint, Keirin, and 500 Time Trial and a rider who has
represented her country of Wales (2002 Commonwealth Games) and Great
Britain. I asked her about the bike she rides, a Terry Dolan. Tyres: "I
use Continentals 165s for training and the French hand made Andre Dugast
for racing. Both are 23mm tubulars. She says "I dislike 19mm tubs
because they don't roll as well". And she had a word of warning --
*beware of using the popular slick road tyres Michelin Axial High
Pressures on tracks like Manchester. She recalls that as soon as she
did use them on the track, the slick tyres had her sliding right back
off the track again! "*-

that would be a yes


--
warrwych

On Feb 15, 11:05 am, warrwych warrwych.2m0...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
Bleve Wrote:



Interestingly, it doesn't say why, which rings my 'myth' alarm.
Otherwise, it's a good page, and thanks for the reference.

Doesn't it say you will slip?????

Yes, but not why, and it's anecdotal. As rooman says, I'm not after
fractions of a second, but I *am* interested in why tread would make
any difference, as at least in my understanding, tread decreases
contact area with the road surface, but maybe that's mitigated by
higher pressures or somesuch. Which is why I'm curious to know if
there's any actual science behind the claim, or is it coincidence that
the sticky tyres mentioned in this thread are treaded, and the slicks
are less sticky? The variables would need to be isolated to tell, and
they're probably not.

I've ordered some Vittoria's as recommended by yourself and a few
other posters, and may get to use them on Monday if I do the club team
pursuit and team sprint things (urgh ... but they did ask me to do
it .. so I'll give it a go)

"Bleve" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 14, 11:02 pm, rooman rooman.2lz...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
Bleve Wrote:

On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, warrwych warrwych.2lx...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
Bleve Wrote:

edit
I'm not one to trackstand just yet, and I've not bunnyhopped a
fixie
at this time either, but otherwise, yeah, just a gumby track rider
at
the moment (and will probably stay that way, it's not my main
interest
by any stretch, just some cross-training). I read with note that a
number of you have suggested the vittorias, and we have them in the
shop, so I can get 'em cheap, and will give them a try if and when
I
get my arse down to DISC for a play around.

No one has mentioned that some tyre compounds (eg those that contain
silicone) are NOT good for wooden tracks - the tyres will slip. Avoid
coloured tyres in general for this reason (that's a broad statement -
some coloured rubber compounds have better wood-hugging properities
than others). I don't know offhand which tyres fall into this
category
- you may be in a better position Bleve.

Generally, according to Jobst anyway, black tyres are the grippiest
(carbon good!), and colours are bad. I'll be sticking with black for
track, if I do it, no puns intended

For those who want a neat summary on track cycling gear and set up
there is an introductory here ( its basic, but it is for the poms so I
guess that's what it has to be (ducks)....there's a mention of tyres
and treads too that might aid or hinder this discussion...cheers

Interestingly, it doesn't say why, which rings my 'myth' alarm.
Otherwise, it's a good page, and thanks for the reference.



I use my Vittoria Pista EVO CL slicks on Dunc Gray and they have not slipped
at any stage, I have not done a track stand up the top of the banking to
test them however.
But I have rolled around the top slowly and there was no feeling of
slipping.

I had to do a sharp turn down onto the duck board at high speed in order to
avoid a rider who had fallen above me in the corner, I turned sharply down
and had to go about 1/2 to the fence in the middle of turn one, I stayed up
and joined back into the race once I got around the fallen rider.

Later in the night during the points race there was a very large fall this
time I swung up to the top of the track as the fallen riders were all
sliding down to the bottom, all those that went to the bottom to avoid it
fell as the entire duck board area was totally blocked with fallen riders.

I got down to DISC tonight to get a bit of time on the boards with the
BBN pursuit training squad (no, I'm not in that team, but it was time
BBN had booked, and we were welcome to have a play).

Rode on my Bontrager Race-lites. Didn't slip. Was very scary on the
banks (they're *steep*!) and I'm cheerfully admitting to having been
sh*tscared!

I have the Vittoria's on order, but they hadn't arrived in time, so I
just used the Bontys ...

Bleve Wrote:
I got down to DISC tonight to get a bit of time on the boards with the
BBN pursuit training squad (no, I'm not in that team, but it was time
BBN had booked, and we were welcome to have a play).

Rode on my Bontrager Race-lites. Didn't slip. Was very scary on the
banks (they're *steep*!) and I'm cheerfully admitting to having been
sh*tscared!

I have the Vittoria's on order, but they hadn't arrived in time, so I
just used the Bontys ...

I tried my lighter clinchers, and also borrowed a disc and tri-spoke
(both tubulars) at the state masters on the weekends, and I've got to
admit I couldn't really tell the difference between any of them but
that is on a concrete track. I would like to compare pursuit times with
convential vs aero wheels sometime though.

Adam


--
adam85

adam85 Wrote:
I tried my lighter clinchers, and also borrowed a disc and tri-spoke
(both tubulars) at the state masters on the weekends, and I've got to
admit I couldn't really tell the difference between any of them but
that is on a concrete track. I would like to compare pursuit times with
convential vs aero wheels sometime though.

Adam

Adam, was that Qld masters??? If so, do you have the results of the
WMAS3 & 4 IP?? Results for the masters on the QLD site are for juniors
(unless they have rectified this). Thanks



--
warrwych

warrwych Wrote:
Adam, was that Qld masters??? If so, do you have the results of the
WMAS3 & 4 IP?? Results for the masters on the QLD site are for juniors
(unless they have rectified this). Thanks


Yep qld masters and yep the link is still wrong, but I doubt the
results are ready yet anyway. I wasn't there for the IPs on saturday
sorry, but I don't think there were enough numbers for a women's medal.
Only 4 entries 1 each in WMAS2,3,5 & 8. There are some photos (including
podium) at http://www.sportpixonline.com.au/

Looking for someone you know or are you watching for competition at the
nationals? Is that your pet event?

Adam


--
adam85

adam85 Wrote:
Yep qld masters and yep the link is still wrong, but I doubt the results
are ready yet anyway. I wasn't there for the IPs on saturday sorry, but
I don't think there were enough numbers for a women's medal. Only 4
entries 1 each in WMAS2,3,5 & 8. There are some photos (including
podium) at http://www.sportpixonline.com.au/

Looking for someone you know or are you watching for competition at the
nationals? Is that your pet event?

Adam

Thanks for the info Adam. I am doing some research Pet event??? If
you can all a snarling stinking slobbering festering fuzzy feral event
such as the IP a pet, then yes, it's my newly acquired pet

We had a few more than 4 in total doing the IP here in Vic, but only 1
in WMAS 2 and 2 in WMAS 3. I think the girls would rather cute
domesticated cats and small white fluffy dogs as pets


--
warrwych