Electronic shifter article

In article
,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 10:29*am, Andre Jute wrote:
I think Shimano's Di2 concept is brilliant, it's
execution is excellent. It is an idea that deserves a wide trial and
to survive. But, because of the innate stickinthemuddery and pack
mentality of cyclists (and especially the roadies), I also think that
we're looking at a gruppo or subgruppo that is on its way to the
orphanage.

"Stickinthemuddery" may be evidence of attempted creativity; or it may
be evidence that Jute's inability to break paragraphs has now
descended to the word level. Will he soon be making _Ulysses_ look
like easy reading by comparison?

_Ulysses_ is easy reading, and not by comparison.
It is good humoured, and often funny.
Dickens is the dickens to read.
Dreary, cruel, and unfunny with a swamp of
unhealthy sexual undertones.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press writes:

In article
,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 10:29Â*am, Andre Jute wrote:
I think Shimano's Di2 concept is brilliant, it's
execution is excellent. It is an idea that deserves a wide trial and
to survive. But, because of the innate stickinthemuddery and pack
mentality of cyclists (and especially the roadies), I also think that
we're looking at a gruppo or subgruppo that is on its way to the
orphanage.

"Stickinthemuddery" may be evidence of attempted creativity; or it may
be evidence that Jute's inability to break paragraphs has now
descended to the word level. Will he soon be making _Ulysses_ look
like easy reading by comparison?

_Ulysses_ is easy reading, and not by comparison.

Easy reading if you dont actually try to, well, read it. To suggest it
is "easy to read" is rather silly since pretty much the rest of the
world disagrees. Still, if you're that clever good luck to you!

It is good humoured, and often funny.
Dickens is the dickens to read.
Dreary, cruel, and unfunny with a swamp of
unhealthy sexual undertones.

Content you have trouble coming to terms with is hardly indicative of
the ease of reading.

On Sep 6, 7:35*pm, wrote:
Michael Press writes:
In article
,
*Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 10:29*am, Andre Jute wrote:
*I think Shimano's Di2 concept is brilliant, it's
execution is excellent. It is an idea that deserves a wide trial and
to survive. But, because of the innate stickinthemuddery and pack
mentality of cyclists (and especially the roadies), I also think that
we're looking at a gruppo or subgruppo that is on its way to the
orphanage.

"Stickinthemuddery" may be evidence of attempted creativity; or it may
be evidence that Jute's inability to break paragraphs has now
descended to the word level. *Will he soon be making _Ulysses_ look
like easy reading by comparison?

_Ulysses_ is easy reading, and not by comparison.

Easy reading if you dont actually try to, well, read it. To suggest it
is "easy to read" is rather silly since pretty much the rest of the
world disagrees. Still, if you're that clever good luck to you!

Hmm. I have read Ulysses. I'm not only clever, equally important I
have the habit of reading fiction. I still found it a hard grind, much
more so than for instance Tolstoy's War and Peace. Of course,
everything else Joyce wrote is far worse than Ulysses if you're
looking to read something for amusement rather than the mere
oneupmanship of having survived some "classic".

Easy reading if you dont actually try to, well, read it.

This is only too true. I "reread" Ulysses last year, by playing the
Naxos Audiobooks 2CD version abridged by Roger Marsh and read by Jim
Norton. I also have the full, unabridged version, which I played
through about ten years ago -- many hours, spread over several days.
In the audio version you can hear the poetry all the time without
searching for it the text.

Andre Jute
Definitely not hidebound

It is good humoured, and often funny.
Dickens is the dickens to read.
Dreary, cruel, and unfunny with a swamp of
unhealthy sexual undertones.

Content you have trouble coming to terms with is hardly indicative of
the ease of reading.

In article ,
wrote:

Michael Press writes:

In article
,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 10:29*am, Andre Jute wrote:
I think Shimano's Di2 concept is brilliant, it's
execution is excellent. It is an idea that deserves a wide trial and
to survive. But, because of the innate stickinthemuddery and pack
mentality of cyclists (and especially the roadies), I also think that
we're looking at a gruppo or subgruppo that is on its way to the
orphanage.

"Stickinthemuddery" may be evidence of attempted creativity; or it may
be evidence that Jute's inability to break paragraphs has now
descended to the word level. Will he soon be making _Ulysses_ look
like easy reading by comparison?

_Ulysses_ is easy reading, and not by comparison.

Easy reading if you dont actually try to, well, read it. To suggest it
is "easy to read" is rather silly since pretty much the rest of the
world disagrees. Still, if you're that clever good luck to you!

It is good humoured, and often funny.
Dickens is the dickens to read.
Dreary, cruel, and unfunny with a swamp of
unhealthy sexual undertones.

Content you have trouble coming to terms with is hardly indicative of
the ease of reading.

Are you saying I do not _care_ about the _children_?

--
Michael Press

On Sep 4, 11:19*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sep 5, 2:59*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:





In article
,

wrote:
On Sep 4, 12:59*pm, wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...di2-electronic...
ride-18283?source=newsletter&attr=road/2008/09/04

[http://tinyurl.com/59c4r5]

"The gradual performance degradation caused by cable housing wear or
contamination is completely eliminated (as Shimano puts it, ³the input
always equals the output²)."

And:

"To be fair, we weren¹t able to spend nearly as much time on Di2 as we
would have liked . . ."

So, at least one of the benefits was entirely untested. *And will
remain
untested until at least late 2009 (as I doubt anyone can ride a
bicycle
for a year or more before then).

On the up side, with a bit more of a "brain" installed, it could go
semi-
automatic with preselected ratios and only two buttons.

The activation buttons are really simple switches. I can think of a few
simple controller systems that would allow you to do semi-auto shifting
or full-auto shifting.

Shimano doesn't need any suggestions for a controller to do full- or
semi-autoshifting. They've been selling one for years in Europe. The
Dura-Ace system you're so excited about is a cut-down version of what
riders of Koga-Miyata's Excellence have been enjoying for years. It
consists of front and rear derailleurs with full autoshifting and has
been available since c2004. If it works anything like my Di2 Cyber
Nexus (and it should, it is the same control gubbins), there is also a
semi-auto mode which I prefer to call assisted-manual. This assisted-
manual mode is precisely what you get on the Dura-Ace, except that on
the Dura-Ace you get nothing more. On the full Di2 electronic versions
whether Nexave or Nexus you also get a selection of predetermined
shifting patterns (3 on the Cyber Nexus: sporting, normal, little old
lady), and in addition you get an overall setting for desired effort
with eight stops. You can read all about it athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Trek%20Navigator%20L700%...

The Dura-Ace version appears to be cut down from the full system in
the following respects:

1. The versions sold in Europe were self-powering by hub dynamo and
probably flash memory (possibly a capacitor though I have been unable
to find it by physical inspection) whereas the Dura-Ace version
requires a battery pack. That's regressive, I think.

2. The deluxe European versions have a variable effort selector, the
Dura-Ace version doesn't, or if it has we haven't heard about it yet.

3. The hedonist types for Europeans have full auto; the cut-down
version for roadies has only assisted manual changes.

4. The deluxe European version has a lockout mode wherein all starts
are sporting because the gearbox starts off in second gear. This would
be useful on the Dura-Ace too but if it is available we haven't heard
of it.

5. The deluxe version, sold to people who can appreciate it, has an
integrated active suspension system, also powered by the hub dynamo.
It is active in the service of efficiency, going hard when you take
off and when you ascend a hill, soft when you ride fast, on the flat
or downhill. The Dura-Ace model for hard men doesn't have any such
luxuries.

6. The deluxe version for bikers who consider their ass valuable
switches the lights on automatically at dusk, and of course the hub
dynamo also powers the lights.

It may be that the cut down Dura-Ace system is better built but I
wouldn't bet on it. Why should it be? It's proven on the European
versions; there are no reports known to me of dissatisfied customers
and I for one have found the system robust beyond initial expectation.
Anyway, to be cynical, Shimano is going to sell the cut-down Dura-Ace
version to a bunch of roadies who apparently haven't taken the trouble
to inform themselves that they can buy a more complete system with a
proven track record by writing away to Europe. If your market is that
insular, the sole vendor can essentially do what he pleases.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend the idea,

I've been using the full auto on my Trek. I love it. I recommend it
wholeheartedly. Compared to the full auto in the Cyber Nexus and
Nexave Di2 versions, that Dura-Ace job seems pretty impoverished. It
wouldn't be so bad if it were merely ascetic, but it seems to me as if
Shimano view that market for the electronic Dura-Ace as one which
suffered a failure of imagination at puberty and still hasn't
recovered.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Riding proudly slow- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...%2FRear%20Hubs

This is a automatic four speed hub, it includes a 36 hole 4-speed
Shimano Nexus Hub, an Operating Panel, a Battery box and a motor unit.
This also has a built in Drum Brake. . Spacing---130mm Holes-----36
rdn...100207


Oh man. That Shimano automatic shifting crap has made it to our
shores. $119.99

On Oct 23, 3:32 pm, "
wrote:
On Sep 4, 11:19 pm, Andre Jute wrote:



On Sep 5, 2:59 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article
,

wrote:
On Sep 4, 12:59 pm, wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...di2-electronic...
ride-18283?source=newsletter&attr=road/2008/09/04

[http://tinyurl.com/59c4r5]

"The gradual performance degradation caused by cable housing wear or
contamination is completely eliminated (as Shimano puts it, ³the input
always equals the output²)."

And:

"To be fair, we weren¹t able to spend nearly as much time on Di2 as we
would have liked . . ."

So, at least one of the benefits was entirely untested. And will
remain
untested until at least late 2009 (as I doubt anyone can ride a
bicycle
for a year or more before then).

On the up side, with a bit more of a "brain" installed, it could go
semi-
automatic with preselected ratios and only two buttons.

The activation buttons are really simple switches. I can think of a few
simple controller systems that would allow you to do semi-auto shifting
or full-auto shifting.

Shimano doesn't need any suggestions for a controller to do full- or
semi-autoshifting. They've been selling one for years in Europe. The
Dura-Ace system you're so excited about is a cut-down version of what
riders of Koga-Miyata's Excellence have been enjoying for years. It
consists of front and rear derailleurs with full autoshifting and has
been available since c2004. If it works anything like my Di2 Cyber
Nexus (and it should, it is the same control gubbins), there is also a
semi-auto mode which I prefer to call assisted-manual. This assisted-
manual mode is precisely what you get on the Dura-Ace, except that on
the Dura-Ace you get nothing more. On the full Di2 electronic versions
whether Nexave or Nexus you also get a selection of predetermined
shifting patterns (3 on the Cyber Nexus: sporting, normal, little old
lady), and in addition you get an overall setting for desired effort
with eight stops. You can read all about it athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Trek%20Navigator%20L700%...

The Dura-Ace version appears to be cut down from the full system in
the following respects:

1. The versions sold in Europe were self-powering by hub dynamo and
probably flash memory (possibly a capacitor though I have been unable
to find it by physical inspection) whereas the Dura-Ace version
requires a battery pack. That's regressive, I think.

2. The deluxe European versions have a variable effort selector, the
Dura-Ace version doesn't, or if it has we haven't heard about it yet.

3. The hedonist types for Europeans have full auto; the cut-down
version for roadies has only assisted manual changes.

4. The deluxe European version has a lockout mode wherein all starts
are sporting because the gearbox starts off in second gear. This would
be useful on the Dura-Ace too but if it is available we haven't heard
of it.

5. The deluxe version, sold to people who can appreciate it, has an
integrated active suspension system, also powered by the hub dynamo.
It is active in the service of efficiency, going hard when you take
off and when you ascend a hill, soft when you ride fast, on the flat
or downhill. The Dura-Ace model for hard men doesn't have any such
luxuries.

6. The deluxe version for bikers who consider their ass valuable
switches the lights on automatically at dusk, and of course the hub
dynamo also powers the lights.

It may be that the cut down Dura-Ace system is better built but I
wouldn't bet on it. Why should it be? It's proven on the European
versions; there are no reports known to me of dissatisfied customers
and I for one have found the system robust beyond initial expectation.
Anyway, to be cynical, Shimano is going to sell the cut-down Dura-Ace
version to a bunch of roadies who apparently haven't taken the trouble
to inform themselves that they can buy a more complete system with a
proven track record by writing away to Europe. If your market is that
insular, the sole vendor can essentially do what he pleases.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend the idea,

I've been using the full auto on my Trek. I love it. I recommend it
wholeheartedly. Compared to the full auto in the Cyber Nexus and
Nexave Di2 versions, that Dura-Ace job seems pretty impoverished. It
wouldn't be so bad if it were merely ascetic, but it seems to me as if
Shimano view that market for the electronic Dura-Ace as one which
suffered a failure of imagination at puberty and still hasn't
recovered.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Riding proudly slow- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...ategory=600011....

This is a automatic four speed hub, it includes a 36 hole 4-speed
Shimano Nexus Hub, an Operating Panel, a Battery box and a motor unit.
This also has a built in Drum Brake. . Spacing---130mm Holes-----36
rdn...100207

Oh man. That Shimano automatic shifting crap has made it to our
shores. $119.99

Resistance is futile. Shimano Total Domination (STD) is inevitable.