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  #41  
Old January 12th 18, 03:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 743
Default DIY China

Frank Krygowski wrote:

There are some interesting ideas about the
evolution of a nation's manufacturing
capability at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano333.html

Start reading at "Background: The
International Bicycle Cycle"

The author seems to have the opinion that the
skill in manufacturing is not inborn, but is
brought in by companies from other countries
looking for cheaper labor and cheaper
manufacturing in general. I think that's
a reasonable explanation for China's
manufacturing growth.


OK, I'll read that, but I wouldn't go as far as
to say China's skills have been brought to them
from anyone else, because all thru their
history they have showed excellency in many
fields similar to today's manufacture.

That said, in Europe, with sports as well as
manufacture, you can easily see the bond or
pyramid between the everyday practitioner and
the elite professional - a bond that I always
thought the very explanation for the elite
level!

But in China I don't know if the model applies?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
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  #42  
Old January 12th 18, 03:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 743
Default handlebar

Just now, I went for a walk in the company of
some steel wire and a magnet.

I checked 50 bikes and 10 hade
non-magnetic handlebars.

The non-magnetic handlebars were on MTBs or
more modern-looking bikes.

(To do the same thing with only the naked eye
would have required a shaman of the
first order.)

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #43  
Old January 12th 18, 03:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 8,626
Default DIY China

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 2:43:44 AM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
the skill in manufacturing is
not inborn, but is brought in by companies from other countries looking
for cheaper labor and cheaper manufacturing in general. I think that's a
reasonable explanation for China's manufacturing growth.

- Frank Krygowski


Do you have to be so racist, Krygowski? It was people like you who claimed that the Japanese were copycats; so do tell, how come the Japanese now own so much of American manufacturing, entertainment, automobiles and other industries?

Now you're making the same dumb mistake with the Chinese, who wore silk clothes and managed a great civilization by written instructions when your ancestors were running around naked in what is now central Europe, were illiterate (which I suspect you still are, given your slack learning progress), probably murdered and ate each other, in short were uncivilized and uncultured.

I wonder how soon the Chinese will follow the financial arc of the Japanese (they're already well past the early stages of the Japanese and Taiwanese industrial arc) and use their trade balances to start buying up America. Pretty soon, I think, if your racist stupidity is at all widely spread.

If you had any brains, Krygowski, you would do some reading and inform yourself. But I don't suppose you will. Instead you'll jerk yourself up with some smartarse comment, which will fall flat, as always, because you're a lamebrain, as demonstrated in your fond belief that the Chinese have no originality or organizing ability.

You poor, foolish man.

Andre Jute
Zero patience for a mindless moron
  #44  
Old January 12th 18, 04:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 8,626
Default DIY China (was: handlebar)

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 1:54:04 AM UTC, Emanuel Berg wrote of the Chinese:
Obviously their skill of manufacturing stuff is
beyond doubt, but I wonder if it is limited to
the people doing it, and not a reflection of
their entire society as it was during the
European/American industrial era?


Speak to an economic historian at your university, or read the newspapers or the tracts of 1740's through to the defeat of Napoleon, or speeches in Hansard, or novels even (start with Jane Austen), or read Captain Gronow's Diary and discover that at the very top of society they weren't even aware in any meaningful sense of the change underway, and you will discover rather smartly that the Industrial Revolution left large parts of the country and society untouched, was exceedingly unpopular with the usual crowd (who presently style themselves as "progressives"), and was popular only with the class whose supposedly idyllic life as sharecroppers and laborers on farms the "progressives" claimed it ruined. Your idea that the whole society was involved is miles from the truth in Britain, and I think pretty unlikely to have happened anywhere else. I'm an economist and, though I studied economic history for several years, my specialties are demographics and applied economics at the interface of mass motivation; I made my reputation, after academe, in investment banking and advertising, where such skills are more fittingly rewarded. Generally speaking, though any properly trained economist of course knows something of the economic history of other European countries, especially France and Germany, and the US, the most intensively studied Industrial Revolution is the British one, because it led the way, and basically all the analysis around the world, but especially from the Teutonic and Scandinavian economists (Austrian economists were for a long time the most important), centered on Britain, in large part also because Marx and Engels, the leading critics of laissez faire capitalism, settled there and made the mills their subject of study, mainly because Engels owned and operated a mill and thus had access to its records. (By way of contrast, agrarian or farm economists begin by studying the French thinkers grouped as "Les Economistes", because their analysis proceeded from the fruit of the land upwards and outwards.)

Andre Jute
https://www.amazon.com/Its-Economy-S.../dp/B0779MGB47
  #45  
Old January 12th 18, 05:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 743
Default DIY China (was: handlebar)

Andre Jute wrote:

Obviously their skill of manufacturing stuff
is beyond doubt, but I wonder if it is
limited to the people doing it, and not
a reflection of their entire society as it
was during the European/American
industrial era?


Speak to an economic historian at your
university [...]


I have a better idea. Let's say we define a DIY
guy in some way. Let's say a DIY guy is a guy
that owns 50 or more tools. Now you will
probably say that you own several hundreds so
yes, that means you qualify

Tools can be mechanical tools but also for
gardening, sawing, whatever...

Now, how many percent of the Chinese are
DIY guys?

And how many percent are in Russia, Europe,
and NA?

I mean - what do you think?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #46  
Old January 12th 18, 06:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 220
Default handlebar

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 2:36:34 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

Anybody with some knowledge can tell the
difference between a stainless steel
handlebar or a aluminum handlebar without
a magnet.


Here, we are not concerned with anyone's
shamanism based on "some knowledge", I'm
looking for a method that will *tell*.

And if there isn't one, fine.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


Google the properties of stainless steel and aluminum and use your imagination.

Lou
  #47  
Old January 12th 18, 06:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 8,626
Default DIY China (was: handlebar)

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 5:26:27 AM UTC, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Obviously their skill of manufacturing stuff
is beyond doubt, but I wonder if it is
limited to the people doing it, and not
a reflection of their entire society as it
was during the European/American
industrial era?


Speak to an economic historian at your
university [...]


I have a better idea. Let's say we define a DIY
guy in some way. Let's say a DIY guy is a guy
that owns 50 or more tools. Now you will
probably say that you own several hundreds so
yes, that means you qualify

Tools can be mechanical tools but also for
gardening, sawing, whatever...

Now, how many percent of the Chinese are
DIY guys?

And how many percent are in Russia, Europe,
and NA?

I mean - what do you think?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


No idea. It seems and impossible thing to guess at; you need market research, which is expensive. -- AJ
  #48  
Old January 12th 18, 07:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 743
Default DIY China (was: handlebar)

Andre Jute wrote:

No idea. It seems and impossible thing to
guess at; you need market research, which
is expensive.


Are there not any Chinese people on Usenet, IRC
or wherever one could ask?

Chinese people not being on Usenet might be
a generation issue tho because when it peaked,
whenever that was (?), I think Internet access
proportionally was much higher in the West.
(Plus the language issue, of course.)

When I was a kid all hackers were from either
the blue collar or educated "chatty" classes
(no pun intended). In Asia tho they were almost
always from the upper classes or even the very
elite! This was because (I think) at that time,
those were the only Asians who had computers.
I think all of this has changed now, which is
good, of course.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #49  
Old January 12th 18, 08:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 743
Default handlebar

AMuzi wrote:

Given chinese character and business
practices generally, I would fully expect
a 'stainless' handlebar to be mild steel with
UCP plate.


UCP: Universal Chrome Plating, a process
for chrome-plating cheap steel spokes so
that they look shiny when they are new.
UCP spokes are used on low-end bicycles
because they are cheaper than stainless
steel spokes. [1]

[1] http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8365

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #50  
Old January 12th 18, 10:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,141
Default handlebar

On 11/01/18 19:42, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

I think there's only a very short list of
things one _cannot_ buy from China.

The presence of an item on Ali Express
doesn't indicate its popularity


The best way to test this is to put on a pair
of brand new shoes and go to the city and
investigate 100 bikes.

The only (?) problem is, isn't it true that
while steel is magnetic, aluminium is
nonmagnetic, only stainless steel is
nonmagnetic as well!


Try a magnet of your stainless steel cutlery.

How does one separate the the cat from
the ermines?


 




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