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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my
exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are substantial at low voltage. The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but never hit the right keywords. Thanks for reading, and any guidance. bob prohaska |
#2
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On Thu, 03 May 2018 02:49:21 +0000, bob prohaska wrote:
I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are substantial at low voltage. The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but never hit the right keywords. Thanks for reading, and any guidance. bob prohaska Any chance the generator was intended for a smaller wheel size? I've got a Shimano generator (single LED with a schottky bridge rectifier) and I don't notice flicker unless I'm going very slowly (5mph). |
#3
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 10:49:23 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are substantial at low voltage. The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but never hit the right keywords. Thanks for reading, and any guidance. I'm a mechanical engineer, not an electrical engineerm and I can't say about B&M, but I had one off-brand LED headlight that died by burning up its LED, so I took it apart and replaced the LED (with great trouble). Turns out the electronics were simple: IIRC just a bridge circuit, a voltage regulator and a few miscellaneous components. And again, it failed by cooking the LED. But I've also opened a low-end B&M headlamp. I can tell you that it had a heck of a lot more complication in its electronics. Lots of surface mount stuff that I can't identify. So I do wonder what it all is. But again, I'm an ME, not an EE. BTW, I fitted an ancient Sturmey-Archer Dynohub with a high power LED. My circuit had the headlight and taillight anti-parallel, with no rectification. So half a cycle goes to the headlight, half to the taillight. It flickers, but it's not a bother. 20 poles, but above 10 mph I don't notice the flicker much. - Frank Krygowski |
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are substantial at low voltage. The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but never hit the right keywords. Thanks for reading, and any guidance. bob prohaska I suspect that they use a Schottky Bridge Rectifier, with a capacitor across the DC output, plus a couple of farads for any standlight that switches in when stopped. |
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
sms wrote:
:On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote: : I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my : exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably : at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse : parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- : cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, : because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at : http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif : The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are : substantial at low voltage. : : The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic : I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it : at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) : : Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in : their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but : never hit the right keywords. : : Thanks for reading, and any guidance. : : bob prohaska :I suspect that they use a Schottky Bridge Rectifier, with a capacitor :across the DC output, plus a couple of farads for any standlight that :switches in when stopped. I would not be at all surprised if the better stuff (where better needn't mean 'more expensive' just 'better design' or maybe just 'newer design') is using a MOSFET brige. One for a bike light wouldn't be terribly expensive, and they're substantially more efficent than a schottky is. -- sig 24 |
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
David Scheidt wrote:
sms wrote: :On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote: : I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my : exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably : at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse : parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- : cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, : because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at : http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif : The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are : substantial at low voltage. : : The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic : I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it : at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) : : Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in : their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but : never hit the right keywords. The classic B&M circuits used rectification and current-doubling to fully power one 1 amp led. Your 2x3S LED approach is quite different. http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430445 Good luck! Simpler: http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm :I suspect that they use a Schottky Bridge Rectifier, with a capacitor :across the DC output, plus a couple of farads for any standlight that :switches in when stopped. I would not be at all surprised if the better stuff (where better needn't mean 'more expensive' just 'better design' or maybe just 'newer design') is using a MOSFET bridge. One for a bike light wouldn't be terribly expensive, and they're substantially more efficent than a schottky is. Not necessary though, especially at road bike velocity and (switchable to) a (rectified) 2S max configuration for those rare low speed moments. https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/nabendynamo-mosfet-mc-e-flackert-wie-wild.676394/ Joerg will surely volunteer to build an uber-efficient, but also beverage- and wildlife-proof circuit for Bob. |
#7
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
Sepp Ruf wrote:
David Scheidt wrote: sms wrote: :On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote: : I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my : exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably : at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse : parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- : cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, : because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at : http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif : The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are : substantial at low voltage. : : The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic : I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it : at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) : : Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in : their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but : never hit the right keywords. The classic B&M circuits used rectification and current-doubling to fully power one 1 amp led. Your 2x3S LED approach is quite different. http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430445 Good luck! Simpler: http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm :I suspect that they use a Schottky Bridge Rectifier, with a capacitor :across the DC output, plus a couple of farads for any standlight that :switches in when stopped. I would not be at all surprised if the better stuff (where better needn't mean 'more expensive' just 'better design' or maybe just 'newer design') is using a MOSFET bridge. One for a bike light wouldn't be terribly expensive, and they're substantially more efficent than a schottky is. Not necessary though, especially at road bike velocity and (switchable to) a (rectified) 2S max configuration for those rare low speed moments. https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/nabendynamo-mosfet-mc-e-flackert-wie-wild.676394/ This is the sort of thing I was looking for, thank you! bob prohaska |
#8
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 2018-05-03 19:36, bob prohaska wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote: David Scheidt wrote: sms wrote: :On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote: : I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my : exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably : at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse : parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- : cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, : because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at : http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif : The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are : substantial at low voltage. : : The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic : I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it : at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) : : Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in : their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but : never hit the right keywords. The classic B&M circuits used rectification and current-doubling to fully power one 1 amp led. Your 2x3S LED approach is quite different. http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430445 Good luck! Note the three big 470uF capacitor in the schematic. That's the "flicker reduction trick" :-) Problem is, electrolytic capacitors do not live long in harsh climate conditions such as the black light enclosure baking in the glistening Arizona desert sun for hours every week or riding around the Klondike in a harsh winter. For me the only proper way of lighting a bicycle is with a rechargeable battery. The LEDs get clean DC and the battery can be recharged from any source, even a pulsating one. That way the lights will not dim to "stand light" or go out when waiting at a traffic light. Why should bicycle lighting be inferior to car lighting? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#9
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
"David Scheidt" wrote in message news sms wrote: :On 5/2/2018 7:49 PM, bob prohaska wrote: : I finally caved and bought a Shimano dh-3n72 hub for use on my : exercise bike. It works fine, but the LEDs flicker quite noticeably : at all speeds. The circuit puts series trios of LEDs in inverse : parallel across the dynamo, so each trio lights on alternate half- : cycles. The flicker wasn't visible with the old Soubitez roller, : because it was working at about 6x higher frequency. The circuit is at : http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif : The point of the design is to eliminate rectifier losses, which are : substantial at low voltage. : : The new setup might be ok for fast riding. At low speeds and in traffic : I'm less sure I'll like it and fairly certain bystanders won't like it : at all, especially at night. As a DRL it certainly aids conspicuity 8-) : : Can anybody point me to a discussion of what outfits like B&M use in : their dynamo-powerd LED headlights? I've searched intermittenly but : never hit the right keywords. : : Thanks for reading, and any guidance. : : bob prohaska :I suspect that they use a Schottky Bridge Rectifier, with a capacitor :across the DC output, plus a couple of farads for any standlight that :switches in when stopped. I would not be at all surprised if the better stuff (where better needn't mean 'more expensive' just 'better design' or maybe just 'newer design') is using a MOSFET brige. One for a bike light wouldn't be terribly expensive, and they're substantially more efficent than a schottky is. SB rectifiers are rarely rated more than 60V - anything higher gets seriously expensive. Most of that type of AC generator vaguely resemble constant current sources - the off load voltage can get a bit naughty. The open voltage on a bottle dynamo can give an impressive belt, not too sure about hub types. Clearly; an intermittent fault in the load would kill the rectifier. |
#10
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 05/07/2018 08:25 PM, Ian Field wrote:
snip The open voltage on a bottle dynamo can give an impressive belt, not too sure about hub types. I can confirm that is in fact the case for hub dynamos :-( |
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