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Impressions from Bike to Work Day



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 11, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 1,270
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/14/2011 4:19 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expertâ„¢ wrote:
On 5/13/2011 4:59 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:

But there is a trend in Montreal that is starting to concern me. I went
for a rec ride yesterday morning and in 2 hours I actually saw 3 bents.
Now I'm nervous.


Wow, must be a Canadian thing, like poutine. Recumbents have become
rarer and rarer in the U.S.. It was a cute fad, but the disadvantages of
recumbents, especially for vehicular cycling, are so overwhelming that
most of the owners went back to regular bikes.


Yet another recumbent "expert" that knows nothing.

Oh wait, it is Scharf. No wonder then.

If Scharf had a clue, he would know that a recumbent's natural
environment *IS* vehicular cycling, as vehicular cycling does *not*
require jumping curbs and other such silliness (sorry Dan O).

This caused recumbent manufacturers to go out of business.


Nonsense. Those that went out of business were due to inadequate
capitalization, poor management, personal misfortune, and/or trying to
expand production too rapidly. Several manufacturers are still around
(e.g. RANS, Easy Racers) that started in the late 1970's or early
1980's, and plenty of new manufacturers (e.g. Catrike, Volae, Bacchetta)
have entered the market to replace those that failed.

Recumbents are great for long
distance touring, with several key advantages, but you see fewer and
fewer commuters using them.


Maybe Scharf is just promoting fiction as fact, as is his wont.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
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  #2  
Old May 15th 11, 04:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On May 14, 2:41 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 5/14/2011 4:19 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*

World's Greatest Expert™ wrote:
On 5/13/2011 4:59 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:


But there is a trend in Montreal that is starting to concern me. I went
for a rec ride yesterday morning and in 2 hours I actually saw 3 bents..
Now I'm nervous.


Wow, must be a Canadian thing, like poutine. Recumbents have become
rarer and rarer in the U.S.. It was a cute fad, but the disadvantages of
recumbents, especially for vehicular cycling, are so overwhelming that
most of the owners went back to regular bikes.


Yet another recumbent "expert" that knows nothing.

Oh wait, it is Scharf. No wonder then.

If Scharf had a clue, he would know that a recumbent's natural
environment *IS* vehicular cycling, as vehicular cycling does *not*
require jumping curbs and other such silliness (sorry Dan O).


(No sweat :-)

There's nothing about my methods that necessarily *requires* jumping
curbs, etc; I could get around just fine playing car. But versatile
maneuvers are a very handy capability, and more fun.

This caused recumbent manufacturers to go out of business.


Nonsense. Those that went out of business were due to inadequate
capitalization, poor management, personal misfortune, and/or trying to
expand production too rapidly. Several manufacturers are still around
(e.g. RANS, Easy Racers) that started in the late 1970's or early
1980's, and plenty of new manufacturers (e.g. Catrike, Volae, Bacchetta)
have entered the market to replace those that failed.

Recumbents are great for long
distance touring, with several key advantages, but you see fewer and
fewer commuters using them.


Maybe Scharf is just promoting fiction as fact, as is his wont.


Actually I see a lot of people on recumbents in my area (considering
how few bikes I see at all) - almost all of them in town, so
presumably commuting (since they don't seem really recreational or
utilitarian). I kind of think they look rather silly, myself, but I'm
plenty weird.
  #3  
Old May 15th 11, 06:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 1,270
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/14/2011 11:40 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expertâ„¢ wrote:
On 5/14/2011 8:24 PM, Dan O wrote:

Actually I see a lot of people on recumbents in my area (considering
how few bikes I see at all) - almost all of them in town, so
presumably commuting (since they don't seem really recreational or
utilitarian). I kind of think they look rather silly, myself, but I'm
plenty weird.


We used to see a lot in the Bay Area as well. It was a fad taken up
mainly by those that wanted something "different," but it didn't last.


Scharf is again pulling fiction out of his arse, and presenting it as
fact. Not one 'bent rider I have known had wanting "something
different" as a primary motivation; in fact, most would rather be able
to ride *without* all the attention.

'Bents are bought for comfort, and/or speed, or in the case of trikes,
eliminating balance issues.

We still see them on occasion, and they're rare enough that they really
stand out.

That's surprising that you don't think they seem recreational since one
of the big advantages of recumbents is the comfort they offer on long
tours. The one place you frequently see them out here is on the coastal
route which is still pretty popular for long tours. They are very poor
for commuting because of visibility issues (both of the bike and of the
cyclist), maneuverability, and safety.


More male bovine excrement from the ignorant and dishonest Scharf.
Riding a 'bent in traffic as a vehicular cyclist is not an issue, even a
lowracer in Chicago (been there, done that).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #4  
Old May 15th 11, 02:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
(PeteCresswell)
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Posts: 2,790
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

Per Dan O:
jumping
curbs, etc;


Jumping curbs has a little-known hazard.

Coming back from a day of windsurfing at the Jersey Shore one
evening (all day in the sun.... dog tired....) I came into a
massive traffic backup at the toll bridge into Philly.

Was in the right lane with a divider strip between me and another
group of lanes - which were almost empty - further to the right.

Suddenly found myself pulling back on the steering wheel of my
Suburban with the urge to jump that curb and get to the
less-clogged lanes.
--
PeteCresswell
  #5  
Old May 19th 11, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Duane Hebert[_4_]
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Posts: 580
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/14/2011 5:41 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 5/14/2011 4:19 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expertâ„¢ wrote:
On 5/13/2011 4:59 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:

But there is a trend in Montreal that is starting to concern me. I went
for a rec ride yesterday morning and in 2 hours I actually saw 3 bents.
Now I'm nervous.


Wow, must be a Canadian thing, like poutine. Recumbents have become
rarer and rarer in the U.S.. It was a cute fad, but the disadvantages of
recumbents, especially for vehicular cycling, are so overwhelming that
most of the owners went back to regular bikes.


Yet another recumbent "expert" that knows nothing.

Oh wait, it is Scharf. No wonder then.

If Scharf had a clue, he would know that a recumbent's natural
environment *IS* vehicular cycling, as vehicular cycling does *not*
require jumping curbs and other such silliness (sorry Dan O).


Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...

  #6  
Old May 20th 11, 01:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,270
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/19/2011 10:40 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 5/14/2011 5:41 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 5/14/2011 4:19 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expertâ„¢ wrote:
On 5/13/2011 4:59 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:

But there is a trend in Montreal that is starting to concern me. I went
for a rec ride yesterday morning and in 2 hours I actually saw 3 bents.
Now I'm nervous.

Wow, must be a Canadian thing, like poutine. Recumbents have become
rarer and rarer in the U.S.. It was a cute fad, but the disadvantages of
recumbents, especially for vehicular cycling, are so overwhelming that
most of the owners went back to regular bikes.


Yet another recumbent "expert" that knows nothing.

Oh wait, it is Scharf. No wonder then.

If Scharf had a clue, he would know that a recumbent's natural
environment *IS* vehicular cycling, as vehicular cycling does *not*
require jumping curbs and other such silliness (sorry Dan O).


Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...


Herd mentality, more than anything else.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #7  
Old May 20th 11, 01:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,270
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/19/2011 11:02 AM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expertâ„¢ wrote:
On 5/19/2011 8:40 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:

snip

Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...


I do see them on very popular touring routes like the Pacific Coast
Highway. But for commuting, it's extremely rare to see a 'bent
anymore--the whole 'bent schtick played itself out years ago.

The Scharf believe that riding a recumbent is a "schtick" indicates that
he is an ignorant fool.

Recumbents are very poor for commuting because of visibility issues


Bull****. Anyone who rides a 'bent knows better.

(both of the bike and of the cyclist), maneuverability, and safety, and


More Bull****. Ibid.

most people have figured this out.


Even more Bull****. Most people have never even tried commuting on a
recumbent bicycle, so how would they know? By listening to
(non)"experts" like Scharf?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #8  
Old May 20th 11, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On May 19, 5:38 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 5/19/2011 10:40 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:



On 5/14/2011 5:41 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 5/14/2011 4:19 PM, SMS aka Steven M. Scharf, the *self-proclaimed*
World's Greatest Expert™ wrote:
On 5/13/2011 4:59 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:


But there is a trend in Montreal that is starting to concern me. I went
for a rec ride yesterday morning and in 2 hours I actually saw 3 bents.
Now I'm nervous.


Wow, must be a Canadian thing, like poutine. Recumbents have become
rarer and rarer in the U.S.. It was a cute fad, but the disadvantages of
recumbents, especially for vehicular cycling, are so overwhelming that
most of the owners went back to regular bikes.


Yet another recumbent "expert" that knows nothing.


Oh wait, it is Scharf. No wonder then.


If Scharf had a clue, he would know that a recumbent's natural
environment *IS* vehicular cycling, as vehicular cycling does *not*
require jumping curbs and other such silliness (sorry Dan O).


Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...


Herd mentality, more than anything else.


I saw a 9 year-old actually herd cats down the driveway.

  #9  
Old May 20th 11, 03:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 19/05/11 16:40, Duane Hebert wrote:

Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...


All sorts of reasons.

But start off with cost. They have big tickets. As a cyclist with a
pocketful of cash to spend, do you spend a lot on an incremental
improvement you /know/ will improve matters (basically, your existing
mount but better/lighter) or do you spend quite a bit more than that on
something where you have no experience of at all? Most will do the
former, and quite reasonably so.

Most 'bent riders (certainly this one) seem to say that it's very
important to try before you buy, because the difference between two
notional 'bents is usually much greater than two notional uprights. So
are you going to drop mucho $$$s on something folk say you must try,
that you typically can't try (because they're hard to come by to test
ride)? I'm an advocate, and I'd say don't do that...

Part of the problem is they are misunderstood in terms of function.
Asked to list bike categories, John Q. Cyclist might come up with
racers, tourers, commuters, folders and recumbents. All those are
/functional/ except the last, while in truth recumbents can (and IMHO
should) themselves be subdivided by function just like uprights. Mine
isn't first and foremost "a recumbent" but rather it's "a tourer". I
use it because it does touring better (for what I want) better than any
upright I could have had for the same money. But I think that most
people wanting a tourer won't look at recumbents, they'll look at
"tourers", and so on. And that leaves 'bents perceived as a
function-free curiosity, rather than as bikes designed for particular
functions that happen to have different seating arrangements.

So a lot of it is down to chicken/egg. You'll have lots of 'bents after
you've got lots of 'bents, as you need lots for a conservative group of
punters to see they're viable and for the prices to come down so they
can afford them. In other words, I can't see them really taking off in
the foreseeable market conditions.

(I don't commute on a 'bent, btw. Round here I use either a Brompton or
Moulton TSR because they suit my particular journeys and needs best, but
I can think of notional commute journeys where I'd be very happy on a
'bent).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #10  
Old May 20th 11, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,ba.bicycles,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Duane Hebert[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 580
Default Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/20/2011 10:34 AM, Peter Clinch wrote:
On 19/05/11 16:40, Duane Hebert wrote:

Then why are they so rare? We actually have people here commuting on
bikes and we rarely see bents...


All sorts of reasons.

But start off with cost. They have big tickets. As a cyclist with a
pocketful of cash to spend, do you spend a lot on an incremental
improvement you /know/ will improve matters (basically, your existing
mount but better/lighter) or do you spend quite a bit more than that on
something where you have no experience of at all? Most will do the
former, and quite reasonably so.

Most 'bent riders (certainly this one) seem to say that it's very
important to try before you buy, because the difference between two
notional 'bents is usually much greater than two notional uprights. So
are you going to drop mucho $$$s on something folk say you must try,
that you typically can't try (because they're hard to come by to test
ride)? I'm an advocate, and I'd say don't do that...

Part of the problem is they are misunderstood in terms of function.
Asked to list bike categories, John Q. Cyclist might come up with
racers, tourers, commuters, folders and recumbents. All those are
/functional/ except the last, while in truth recumbents can (and IMHO
should) themselves be subdivided by function just like uprights. Mine
isn't first and foremost "a recumbent" but rather it's "a tourer". I use
it because it does touring better (for what I want) better than any
upright I could have had for the same money. But I think that most
people wanting a tourer won't look at recumbents, they'll look at
"tourers", and so on. And that leaves 'bents perceived as a
function-free curiosity, rather than as bikes designed for particular
functions that happen to have different seating arrangements.

So a lot of it is down to chicken/egg. You'll have lots of 'bents after
you've got lots of 'bents, as you need lots for a conservative group of
punters to see they're viable and for the prices to come down so they
can afford them. In other words, I can't see them really taking off in
the foreseeable market conditions.

(I don't commute on a 'bent, btw. Round here I use either a Brompton or
Moulton TSR because they suit my particular journeys and needs best, but
I can think of notional commute journeys where I'd be very happy on a
'bent).


Some good points. I have no interest in bents so far but I don't really
have anything against them. Was just chirping at Tom.
 




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