|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
DRS wrote: [...] Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out energy in. The reason Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because high protein diets suppress appetite more than other kinds, so even though people are theoretically allowed to eat as much as they want (within reason) they simply end up reducing their calorific intake below their maintenance levels naturally. Atkins is not a high protein diet...it is a high fat diet. The lack of carbs is what suppresses appetite, not protein. Er, no. It's been clinically demonstrated that it's the high protein that suppresses the appetite. High fats actually increase the appetite. -- A: Top-posters. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet? |
Ads |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
DRS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message :: ::: DRS wrote: :: :: [...] :: ::::: Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out energy in. The ::::: reason Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because high ::::: protein diets suppress appetite more than other kinds, so even ::::: though people are theoretically allowed to eat as much as they ::::: want (within reason) they simply end up reducing their calorific ::::: intake below their maintenance levels naturally. ::: ::: Atkins is not a high protein diet...it is a high fat diet. The lack ::: of carbs is what suppresses appetite, not protein. :: :: Er, no. It's been clinically demonstrated that it's the high :: protein that suppresses the appetite. High fats actually increase :: the appetite. :: No, it's been proven that protein can suppress appetite. That doesn't mean that removing carbs doesn't suppress appetite. And Atkins is a high-fat diet, so by your logic those people ought to be having lots of appetite. They don't because by restricting carbs they eliminate BG swings and reduce hunger. As a result, they lose weight because the eat fewer calories. The benefits of protein come when its time to cease weight loss. Then you increase carbs, lower fat, and increase protein a bit. Fat is about twice as dense energy wise as carbs and protein. So, if you remove one gram of fat from your diet, you can add 1 gram of carbs and protein. The extra protein helps with appetite suppression. |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
Anyone who makes statements like "It is a know fact..." and "It is a
know proven fact..." has already given up any reason to be taken seriously. Even if his use of words was correct, a gratuitous assertion can only be opinion rather than established fact. This is regardless of what my grandfather did (he was actually owning grain elevators in Iowa) and when he needed it, he bought the produce that the hunter/gatherers in Eastern Iowa ca. 1890/1900s brought in. This posting is so ludicrous as to warrent ignoring. A solid breakfast of ham and eggs would get me about 30 miles before the glycogens ran out and the caffeine would cause an adrenaline surge that would bring on arrhythmia that would put me down in the middle of the road (I am on a caffeine-free diet due to this.) Alexander Gilchrist |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
DRS wrote: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message DRS wrote: [...] Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out energy in. The reason Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because high protein diets suppress appetite more than other kinds, so even though people are theoretically allowed to eat as much as they want (within reason) they simply end up reducing their calorific intake below their maintenance levels naturally. Atkins is not a high protein diet...it is a high fat diet. The lack of carbs is what suppresses appetite, not protein. Er, no. It's been clinically demonstrated that it's the high protein that suppresses the appetite. High fats actually increase the appetite. No, it's been proven that protein can suppress appetite. That doesn't mean that removing carbs doesn't suppress appetite. And Atkins is a high-fat diet, so by your logic those people ought to be having lots of appetite. They don't because by restricting carbs they eliminate BG swings and reduce hunger. As a result, they lose weight because the eat fewer calories. It's restricting *simple* carbs that reduces the blood sugar swings hence insulin levels swings hence hunger and cutting simple sugars down or even out of your diet entirely will certainly help. But that's not what you said (I left in what you said above). Atkins is primarily a high protein diet and that's why it works. The benefits of protein come when its time to cease weight loss. Then you increase carbs, lower fat, and increase protein a bit. Fat is about twice as dense energy wise as carbs and protein. So, if you remove one gram of fat from your diet, you can add 1 gram of carbs and protein. The extra protein helps with appetite suppression. If you've done your macronutrient calculations properly you only change your protein intake in proportion to changing LBM. Ditto for fats. That means it's your complex carbs targets which change most between cutting and bulking. -- A: Top-posters. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet? |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
DRS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message :: ::: DRS wrote: ::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message ::::: :::::: DRS wrote: ::::: ::::: [...] ::::: :::::::: Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out energy in. :::::::: The reason Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because :::::::: high protein diets suppress appetite more than other kinds, so :::::::: even though people are theoretically allowed to eat as much as :::::::: they want (within reason) they simply end up reducing their :::::::: calorific intake below their maintenance levels naturally. :::::: :::::: Atkins is not a high protein diet...it is a high fat diet. The :::::: lack of carbs is what suppresses appetite, not protein. ::::: ::::: Er, no. It's been clinically demonstrated that it's the high ::::: protein that suppresses the appetite. High fats actually increase ::::: the appetite. ::: ::: No, it's been proven that protein can suppress appetite. That ::: doesn't mean that removing carbs doesn't suppress appetite. And ::: Atkins is a high-fat diet, so by your logic those people ought to be ::: having lots of appetite. They don't because by restricting carbs ::: they eliminate BG swings and reduce hunger. As a result, they lose ::: weight because the eat fewer calories. :: :: It's restricting *simple* carbs that reduces the blood sugar swings :: hence insulin levels swings hence hunger and cutting simple sugars :: down or even out of your diet entirely will certainly help. But :: that's not what you said (I left in what you said above). Atkins is :: primarily a high protein diet and that's why it works. Atkins is not a high protein diet. That is just plain wrong. Clearly you have no experience with it and are just talking. And what exactly are simple carbs? If you consume enough grams of any digestable carb, you'll get BG swings. :: ::: The benefits of protein come when its time to cease weight loss. ::: Then ::: you increase carbs, lower fat, and increase protein a bit. Fat is ::: about twice as dense energy wise as carbs and protein. So, if you ::: remove one gram of fat from your diet, you can add 1 gram of carbs ::: and protein. The extra protein helps with appetite suppression. :: :: If you've done your macronutrient calculations properly you only :: change your protein intake in proportion to changing LBM. Ditto for :: fats. That means it's your complex carbs targets which change most :: between cutting and bulking. Who's talking about cutting and bulking right now? I was talkng about weight loss and how one eases off that phase on Atkins..We can go over to MWF to talk about cutting and bulking |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:32:37 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Atkins is not a high protein diet. That is just plain wrong. Clearly you have no experience with it and are just talking. And what exactly are simple carbs? If you consume enough grams of any digestable carb, you'll get BG swings. Clearly you have experience with Atkins, or your interpretation of it. But I don't understand what you mean when you say it's not a high protein diet? I think the dogma is it's a low carb, higher protein, plus moderate good fat and oils. OTOH, there are lots of interpretations of it, and some ppl use it as an excuse to eat lots of fatty food. It's my impression that most ppl who make it through the induction phase tend to stay in 'induction', i.e. eating less than 20 gm of carbs (simple, or complex), partly b/c it reduces one's desire to eat carbs. Those who discover they'd been 'carb addicts' are glad to discover the loss of desire to eat carbs, b/c for them, it causes them to overeat; they can't just eat one cookie, they have to eat 10 or the whole bag, etc. To be freed of this compulsion is wonderful, IMO. I try and limit the overt fat by trimming meat and keeping the bacon eating low. Most of the fat I get is from salmon and other types of fish, or from hamburger, which I try to get very lean. Anyway, I think you have to take into account that even though a person says they are on Atkins, I bet few ppl follow it rigorously, and just end up cutting the obvious carbs and eating cheese, meat, eggs and soforth. I'm of the opinion that I/most ppl eat about twice as much food as they really need. When I'm really in the zone, I have salmon twice a day, and cooked whole turkey which I slice up and portion out. In addition I'll eat eggs, cheese, snack on nuts, and have a portion of green beans with supper. But some days, when the appetite is down, I'll survive easily on a hamburger patty or two. I supplement with vits and oils, of course. I still drink 2% milk, but often drop dairy for a while if I'm making a push to lose the next 10lbs. The other interesting thing WRT to weight loss is I tend to lose in 10lb surges. I'll hang out at about 230-240 for a couple weeks, then have a whoosh and get down into the 220s, and then hang out at 220-230 for a few weeks, and continue like that. If I look at my graph, occasionally I'll have about a 5 lb gain just preceeding a dramatic loss of about 10 lbs. Anyway, just wondering about your take on it. Best, -B |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:03:30 -0400, Alexander Gilchrist
wrote: A solid breakfast of ham and eggs would get me about 30 miles before the glycogens ran out and the caffeine would cause an adrenaline surge that would bring on arrhythmia that would put me down in the middle of the road (I am on a caffeine-free diet due to this.) Alexander Gilchrist I think that's atypical for those eating low carb, although it's good to know your own predilections. On LC, I have no sensation of 'glycogens running out' whatsoever. Of course it might take a while to get used to being on a BDK type diet like Atkins - some ppl get headaches. I might consume some dilute fruit juice or eat a couple M&Ms prior to a long fast ride, but that's by design, not really by need. -B |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
Roger Zoul wrote:
Terry Morse wrote: Roger Zoul wrote: Terry Morse wrote: Any weight loss diet is essentially a gimmick to get you to eat fewer calories. Not a gimmick....also, the diets aren't no-carb... Yes, a gimmick. All diets are ruses to get people to reduce their calorie intake. It doesn't matter what the diet is called: no-carb, low-carb, low-fat, asparagus, Pritiken, Atkins, South Beach. Nor does it matter what types of food you eat. If you reduce your calorie intake, you lose weight. Plain and simple, even if the $40 billion diet industry wants you to think otherwise. How is eating to normalize blood sugar swings a ruse or a gimmick? How is erecting a strawman going to help you with your argument? I stated how diets produce *weight loss*, not how they alter your blood chemistry. I'll try again to state this as simply as possible: You can follow a diet designed to regulate blood sugar, or one that restricts you to whale blubber and olives. None of the details matter when it comes to weight loss! They are all inventions that trick you into eating fewer calories. Do you know what these words mean? Yes, thank you for asking. Can you follow a simple argument? www.dictionary.com is your friend... Two can play the smartass game, here are some definitions: Ruse: A crafty stratagem; a subterfuge. Gimmick: An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project. Invention: A mental fabrication A program that states "don't eat so damn much, eat a balanced diet, and exercise more" would not be a ruse/gimmick/invention. But it wouldn't grab much market share of that juicy $40 billion, now would it? -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ In Excelsis Escendo |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
DRS wrote: [...] It's restricting *simple* carbs that reduces the blood sugar swings hence insulin levels swings hence hunger and cutting simple sugars down or even out of your diet entirely will certainly help. But that's not what you said (I left in what you said above). Atkins is primarily a high protein diet and that's why it works. Atkins is not a high protein diet. That is just plain wrong. Clearly you have no experience with it and are just talking. Unlike you I actually read the books. And what exactly are simple carbs? If you consume enough grams of any digestable carb, you'll get BG swings. I do hope you realise you have just shot your credibility to bits. "What is a simple carb?" indeed! It's a sugar with one (monosaccharide) or two (disaccharide) polymerised glucose molecules. For the record, complex carbs are either oligosaccharides (3-20 monosaccharide links) and polysaccharides (10 to thousands of monosaccharide links). Complex carbs do not cause blood sugar swings. [...] If you've done your macronutrient calculations properly you only change your protein intake in proportion to changing LBM. Ditto for fats. That means it's your complex carbs targets which change most between cutting and bulking. Who's talking about cutting and bulking right now? I was talkng about weight loss and how one eases off that phase on Atkins..We can go over to MWF to talk about cutting and bulking Cutting is cutting whether you're a cyclist or a weight-lifter. -- A: Top-posters. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet? |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
Carbo loading before a race?
On Fri, 14 May 2004 00:33:07 +1000, "DRS"
wrote: I do hope you realise you have just shot your credibility to bits. "What is a simple carb?" indeed! It's a sugar with one (monosaccharide) or two (disaccharide) polymerised glucose molecules. For the record, complex carbs are either oligosaccharides (3-20 monosaccharide links) and polysaccharides (10 to thousands of monosaccharide links). Complex carbs do not cause blood sugar swings. [...] I think we should be talking insulin here, and not blood sugar. Simple carbs can cause a large output of insulin, complex carbs a more modulated output. This can be a problem for people who have insulin resistance, and may result in the nutrients being stored as fat, according to my reading. -B |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Purchasing Race Wheels: new or used? | David Matusow | General | 4 | January 9th 04 08:36 PM |
Tapering for a race? | David Kerber | General | 6 | October 9th 03 12:10 AM |