New bicycle infrastructure in Eindhoven NL

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 9:15:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 7:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
The placed a new bridge over the highway and a secondary road last night. Keep in mind this bridge is only meant for bicycles.

https://www.nu.nl/282835/video/grote...geplaatst.html

And for contrast:

At the northwest part of my nearby city, there was a pedestrian/bicycle
bridge over the city center interstate. (I rode over it a few times even
though I seldom rode through that part of the city.) It was probably
installed in the 1960s when the freeway was built, to give kids from one
neighborhood access to a school on the other side of the freeway.

A few years ago they spent a small fortune to tear the bridge down. They
said the maintenance costs weren't justified by the bridge's low use. I
guess kids now ride a school bus instead of walking or biking to school.

So Netherlands gets fancy new bridges installed for bikes. The U.S. gets
existing bike bridges torn down.

No, some place in Ohio got a bridge torn down, apparently because nobody in that place rides a bike or walks. PDX is still building bridges. https://tinyurl.com/hhwwk3s This one got the StreetFilms guys excited, although its primarily bus/train crossing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIYPA7jyELs&t=23s I rode home over that yesterday. The auto bridge near my house got rebuilt with all sorts of bike facilities. It's kind of ridiculous because it has redundant bike facilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMTJYQfknAg&t=9s I went over that today.

By the way, as far as unitized bridges go, this one had its center section built in California, assembled in Oregon at the Swan Island ship yards and then barged into place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pZDgURI0DY They did the same thing with the Sauvie Island bridge, although that bridge is tiny by comparison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIdeax8RD0

-- Jay Beattie.

Am 30.08.2020 um 21:42 schrieb Frank Krygowski:

But I admit, I wonder if pre-fab happens anyway? ISTM with modern
computer aided design and manufacture, it should be possible for an
architect to design a fancy house and have even custom sub-components
pre-assembled and trucked in. Is that happening anywhere?

Germany is a country of individually planned detached houses (developers
mostly do larger blocks of flats and terraces).

Out of the detached houses, it's about 50/50 between pre-fab houses and
"solid" built-on-site houses. Supposedly, price (however once you've
paid half a million for the ground near polular cities, a few thousand
difference for individual flexibility doesn't hurt) and quality don't
differ that much but pre-fab is a lot faster.

On 8/30/2020 4:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 9:15:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 7:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
The placed a new bridge over the highway and a secondary road last night. Keep in mind this bridge is only meant for bicycles.

https://www.nu.nl/282835/video/grote...geplaatst.html

And for contrast:

At the northwest part of my nearby city, there was a pedestrian/bicycle
bridge over the city center interstate. (I rode over it a few times even
though I seldom rode through that part of the city.) It was probably
installed in the 1960s when the freeway was built, to give kids from one
neighborhood access to a school on the other side of the freeway.

A few years ago they spent a small fortune to tear the bridge down. They
said the maintenance costs weren't justified by the bridge's low use. I
guess kids now ride a school bus instead of walking or biking to school.

So Netherlands gets fancy new bridges installed for bikes. The U.S. gets
existing bike bridges torn down.

No, some place in Ohio got a bridge torn down, apparently because nobody in that place rides a bike or walks. PDX is still building bridges. https://tinyurl.com/hhwwk3s

You're right, I shouldn't have made "bridges" plural. OTOH, there is
Portland, and then there is the rest of the U.S. Those places are very
different.

As described here previously, I've helped get (better) bike access on
two local bridges. One tiny committee I was on got a federal grant to
save a historic bridge due to be torn down, and make it a bike/ped
bridge. And when the bridge over a nearby freeway was due for major
repair & maintenance, I led the effort to get it widened so riding it
would feel less hostile. So some good things do happen.

One problem we frequently have, though, is that when bridges are built
they give no consideration to cyclists or pedestrians. They say "Nobody
walks or bikes here" and that may be true when the bridge is built, but
then development happens and generates more non-motorized traffic. Or
would, if things were better. But once a bridge is built, it's rarely
re-built.

Bridge width costs money, so the next two bridges over this same freeway
have lanes too narrow to share with a motor vehicle. I ride lane center
and do OK, but most people are not willing to do that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 2:42:29 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 3:15 PM, wrote:

Yes. The idea of using pre-cast, ready to assemble, pre-made components to construct stuff has been popular and gaining popularity for a number of years. In the 1970s, there were some/many houses built that were built at factories in two sides. The two completely finished sides were trucked to a basement foundation and lifted via a crane onto the foundation walls. Two sides bolted together and roof patched together. House done. Fast and cheap for a basic ranch house. Sadly that sort of died out though. But in house construction today we use prebuilt trusses to make roofs instead of notching all the rafters individually. Quicker and better but not cheaper. And we use premade I-beam for joists in floors. Cheaper and better than using 2x 10 or 2x 12 for joists. And of course we use steel, aluminum and vinyl siding for houses that never needs painting and never rots. Like wood siding. Using premade and prebuilt parts has been going for many years. And in many cases I would say its an improvement.
+1.

Around here, most of the new housing construction seems to happen out in
"mushroom developments" - new isolated streets in former cornfields
connecting only to former farm roads. These are mostly McMansions, large
houses on relatively small lots.

The more upscale houses can be pretty ornate, with lots of gables,
porches, angles and extensions as opposed to simple box designs. It's
architecturally interesting, but I imagine it hampers pre-fab construction.

But I admit, I wonder if pre-fab happens anyway? ISTM with modern
computer aided design and manufacture, it should be possible for an
architect to design a fancy house and have even custom sub-components
pre-assembled and trucked in. Is that happening anywhere?

--
- Frank Krygowski


Yes. Pre-fab, pre-built, standardized happens in all construction. House construction anyway. No matter how expensive or fancy the McMansion is, it uses standard stuff you and I can go down to Home Depot and buy off the shelf. The McMansions have fancy roofs with all sorts of gables and pitches. But all of those are assembled from a variety of pre-built trusses you can buy off the shelf. Just depends how you put all of them together to get a different look. There is very little to almost NO custom cut rafters for roofs now days. Its faster, and cheaper for labor, to buy pre-built trusses for roofs. Almost no skill to assemble them. Kind of like with bicycle frames where long ago you needed a skilled brazer to put lugged frames together. Then TIG welding came in and an idiot or automated machine could weld together frames cheaply. Now no more lugged frames. All TIG welded, aluminum and steel. Your McMansions will use pre-assembled interior doors and frames. No one hangs doors individually. You just buy the whole door already assembled into the frame and you nail in the frame/door as a whole unit. Same with exterior doors too. And the exterior trim on windows is already attached to the window unit and it is all put in together. No trimming windows on the outside. Interior trim is still done separately. Interior walls on houses are 8', 9', or 10'. Because drywall is sold in 4-4.5-5 foot widths. Various lengths from 8 feet to 16 feet. Stack two 4 or 4.5 or 5 foot width drywall sheets on top each other and you get 8, 9, or 10 foot high walls. All standards in the McMansions just like in the cheap houses too.

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 8/30/2020 3:15 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 12:14:20 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/30/2020 10:56 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
The placed a new bridge over the highway and a secondary road last night.
Keep in mind this bridge is only meant for bicycles.

https://www.nu.nl/282835/video/grote...geplaatst.html

Lou


Cool. So they pre-fabricated the entire bridge and then transported it down
the freeway and dropped it onto piers they had built on both sides?

Our most recent ex-Governor changed to that method with
great cost savings over on-site bridge fabrication. Sensible
idea with several features/designs/applications:

https://precast.org/2015/11/a-new-pa...ements-in-abc/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Yes. The idea of using pre-cast, ready to assemble, pre-made
components to construct stuff has been popular and gaining
popularity for a number of years. In the 1970s, there were
some/many houses built that were built at factories in two sides.
The two completely finished sides were trucked to a basement
foundation and lifted via a crane onto the foundation walls. Two
sides bolted together and roof patched together. House done. Fast
and cheap for a basic ranch house. Sadly that sort of died out
though. But in house construction today we use prebuilt trusses to
make roofs instead of notching all the rafters individually.
Quicker and better but not cheaper. And we use premade I-beam for
joists in floors. Cheaper and better than using 2x 10 or 2x 12 for
joists. And of course we use steel, aluminum and vinyl siding for
houses that never needs painting and never rots. Like wood siding.
Using premade and prebuilt parts has been going for many years. And
in many cases I would say its an improvement.

+1.

Around here, most of the new housing construction seems to happen out
in "mushroom developments" - new isolated streets in former cornfields
connecting only to former farm roads. These are mostly McMansions,
large houses on relatively small lots.

The more upscale houses can be pretty ornate, with lots of gables,
porches, angles and extensions as opposed to simple box designs. It's
architecturally interesting, but I imagine it hampers pre-fab
construction.

But I admit, I wonder if pre-fab happens anyway? ISTM with modern
computer aided design and manufacture, it should be possible for an
architect to design a fancy house and have even custom sub-components
pre-assembled and trucked in. Is that happening anywhere?

One of my former cow-orkers recently had a large, high end, prefab house
put up on Cape Cod. I think it came in three or four pieces, with
wiring, plumbing, and ductwork already in place. I'm not sure where it
was manufactured.

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 10:14:20 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/30/2020 10:56 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
The placed a new bridge over the highway and a secondary road last night.
Keep in mind this bridge is only meant for bicycles.

https://www.nu.nl/282835/video/grote...geplaatst.html

Lou


Cool. So they pre-fabricated the entire bridge and then transported it down
the freeway and dropped it onto piers they had built on both sides?

Our most recent ex-Governor changed to that method with
great cost savings over on-site bridge fabrication. Sensible
idea with several features/designs/applications:

https://precast.org/2015/11/a-new-pa...ements-in-abc/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
The number of bike riders has grown to such an extent that perhaps bicycle/pedestrian bridges will come back in fashion. The number of pure sports riders has REALLY been increasing. Do you suppose this is an age related thing since they mostly appear to be in their mid-20's?

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 12:45:36 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
The placed a new bridge over the highway and a secondary road last night. Keep in mind this bridge is only meant for bicycles.

https://www.nu.nl/282835/video/grote...geplaatst.html

Lou

That illustrates the difference in the public importance of cycling between your nation and mine, Lou. In your nation a cyclists' bridge over a busy road is routinely celebrated as a civic achievement.

In my country four bicycle stands, count 'em, four, further than the car parking (of course!) from the shopping centre, are an item of national news, about which as the only local cyclist with a television profile I was invited to say a few words on camera...

What can you do but laugh about such a bizarre distance between outlooks.

Andre Jute
Bizarro? Nuts!