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#11
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
Gary Young wrote:
Another blog posting on the wheel: http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007...vic_wheel.html The description seems to me to be hopelessly confused, but there is a photograph showing how the carbon-fiber spokes connect to the hub. well /this/ http://rodale.typepad.com/.shared/im...9/img_1529.jpg sure isn't a compression fitting! |
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#12
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
ahhhh!
BM writes: The drive side rear spokes are aluminum, like Ksyrium. Mavic says that a full compliment of tubular carbon spokes would make the rear wheel ride too rigid. Also, the aluminum spokes will tolerate a derailleur or chain thrown into the spokes better and are cheaper to replace if you do. and off coursa this answers the first question after Ma tells us the carbons donna bend. insteda of bending the spokes... sounds like a terrific idea. placement at speed. see the rider photo. |
#13
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
On Jun 19, 11:58 am, Kinky Cowboy wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:41:12 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: On Jun 18, 9:55 pm, Gary Young wrote: Road Mag's blog had this item today: "The [new] wheels, which are part of the Ksyrium family, http://tinyurl.com/2m59r9 Still with crappola rear hub and for only, what $2600 or so?? my head hurts "The suggested retail is about $1,400 US" according to the article. Also "(the spokes only way[sic] five grams each - versus an aluminium at eight grams " Sapim CX-Rays weight 4g, and are cheaper than Mavic Aluminium or carbon spokes. So instead of 16 carbon spokes, use 20 CX-Rays; I'm pretty sure that's going to make a wheel with both higher axial stiffness and lower aerodynamic drag, at exactly the same weight and lower cost. Is there some vital piece of European politics I'm missing which prevents French Mavic from admitting that Belgian Sapim (or Swiss DT) have already solved the spoke problem? Heck, both countries even have substantial Francophone populations, so it can't be a language issue. Kinky Cowboy* *Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary ahh, I see, take a Kry-4-me sirium, same crappy rear hub(even with red pawls), replace left side rear spokes with carbon ones..make the rim assymetric(a GOOD idea), add $300 to the price(ala 'ES version)..heads still hurts. lesseeee...these 1400 grams or so..OR....use a DA/Record/ DT hubset, Velocity rims, DT spokes...$600-$750 or so and 1550 grams or so...150 grams are now worth $700!!! head still hurts... |
#14
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
On Jun 20, 9:06 am, datakoll wrote:
snipped - on Mavic's latest gimmick - Mavic says that a full compliment of tubular carbon spokes would make the rear wheel ride too rigid. Mavic seems to have struck the Mother Lode of Unadulterated BS! |
#15
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
On Jun 20, 8:51 am, jim beam wrote:
Gary Young wrote: Another blog posting on the wheel: http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007...vic_wheel.html The description seems to me to be hopelessly confused, but there is a photograph showing how the carbon-fiber spokes connect to the hub. well /this/http://rodale.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/20... sure isn't a compression fitting! According to www.cyclingnews.com the carbon spokes are in tension but are designed to handle compressive loads as well. This allows them to make a wheel with lower spoke tension thus a lighter rim since it doesn't have to handle as much stress from the spokes. Mavic has also finally given in to the asymetric rim design for there new wheels in order to help balance spoke tension. The reason for the aluminum spokes on the drive side in the rear wheel is so that they could use thin bladed spokes and thus place them as far away from the center of the hub as possible. It lookes like the front wheel uses 18 spokes and the rear uses 24. It sounds like a decent racing wheel to me but I am a bit sceptical about how it will hold up for the general public. I did find this claim by mavic to be interesting, "In seeking that elusive "third generation", Mavic designers and engineers identified spoke stiffness and flange spacing as the biggest contributors to a wheel's lateral rigidity, while rim stiffness, spoke length, hub flange diameter, and spoke lacing patterns all are said to offer little significant influence. More surprisingly, Mavic also claims that spoke tension has a negligible influence, and increasing the spoke tension actually reduces overall lateral rigidity (although it does delay the onset of complete spoke detensioning)." I was surprised to hear that rim stiffness has such a small influence on lateral stiffness. I notice a huge difference between a deepV rim and a open pro rim when it comes to lateral stiffness, assuming the same hub and spokes are used in both wheels. Steve Sauter |
#16
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
steve wrote: Mavic designers and engineers identified spoke stiffness and flange spacing as the biggest contributors to a wheel's lateral rigidity, while rim stiffness, spoke length, hub flange diameter, and spoke lacing patterns all are said to offer little significant influence. When I modeled a wheel I got the same result. Flange spacing (or actually bracing angle) has an exponential effect on lateral stiffness and the spoke stiffness has almost a linear effect. The rim stiffness effect was way below linear. I was surprised to hear that rim stiffness has such a small influence on lateral stiffness. I notice a huge difference between a deepV rim and a open pro rim when it comes to lateral stiffness, assuming the same hub and spokes are used in both wheels. Did you measure this? "Seat of the pants" measurements are unreliable for these things... Mavic also built 2 sets of wheels that were indentical except that one had 4 times the lateral stiffness of the other. Riders could not accurately identify which was which. |
#17
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
Steve Sauter writes:
http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007...vic_wheel.html The description seems to me to be hopelessly confused, but there is a photograph showing how the carbon-fiber spokes connect to the hub. well /this/ http://tinyurl.com/2m59r9 sure isn't a compression fitting! According to www.cyclingnews.com the carbon spokes are in tension but are designed to handle compressive loads as well. This allows them to make a wheel with lower spoke tension thus a lighter rim since it doesn't have to handle as much stress from the spokes. Mavic has also finally given in to the asymmetric rim design for there new wheels in order to help balance spoke tension. The reason for the aluminum spokes on the drive side in the rear wheel is so that they could use thin bladed spokes and thus place them as far away from the center of the hub as possible. It looks like the front wheel uses 18 spokes and the rear uses 24. It sounds like a decent racing wheel to me but I am a bit skeptical about how it will hold up for the general public. I don't understand what the difference between racing and other bicycling has for wheels. What is it a wheel must do in a race that is different from non-race riding. I seem to see differences implied that one is a greater stress than the other but the more stressful one changes depending on what point is being put forth. From what I see cruising up and down the avenue here, the all look like racing wheels, some costing as much as $4000 a pair, according to our local bicycle shops. Jobst Brandt |
#18
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
what avenue are you cruising?
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#19
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
On Jun 20, 10:07 am, wrote:
Steve Sauter writes: http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007...vic_wheel.html The description seems to me to be hopelessly confused, but there is a photograph showing how the carbon-fiber spokes connect to the hub. well /this/ http://tinyurl.com/2m59r9 sure isn't a compression fitting! According towww.cyclingnews.comthe carbon spokes are in tension but are designed to handle compressive loads as well. This allows them to make a wheel with lower spoke tension thus a lighter rim since it doesn't have to handle as much stress from the spokes. Mavic has also finally given in to the asymmetric rim design for there new wheels in order to help balance spoke tension. The reason for the aluminum spokes on the drive side in the rear wheel is so that they could use thin bladed spokes and thus place them as far away from the center of the hub as possible. It looks like the front wheel uses 18 spokes and the rear uses 24. It sounds like a decent racing wheel to me but I am a bit skeptical about how it will hold up for the general public. I don't understand what the difference between racing and other bicycling has for wheels. What is it a wheel must do in a race that is different from non-race riding. Lessee....lighter, more aero. IOW, marginally "faster". Less reliable and durable in pursuit of those goals is okay, too, especially if you are sponsored and followed around by support vehicles. I seem to see differences implied that one is a greater stress than the other but the more stressful one changes depending on what point is being put forth. From what I see cruising up and down the avenue here, the all look like racing wheels, some costing as much as $4000 a pair, according to our local bicycle shops. Jobst Brandt |
#20
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Mavic introduces wheel with compression spokes
Gary Young wrote:
It was more rigid and at 1355 grams they are one of the lighter wheel sets on the market (hey - the spokes only way five grams each - versus an aluminum at eight grams - and we know that every gram counts)." The really funny thing is that high-end flat steel spokes like Sapim CX-Ray or DT Swiss Aerolite are also about five grams each, and they are a lot more aerodynamic and less likely to break than at least Mavic's aluminium spokes. I really can't understand why Mavic insists on using aluminium in spokes, or carbon for that matter, and why anybody would be stupid enough to buy them at that price. In the wheel tests perfomed in a wind tunnel Mavic Ksyrium SL or Ksyrium ES have shown to be about as slow as wheels get. Mavic Ksyrium Elite or Mavic Aksium ($150 a pair or so) are faster unless you only ride uphill. Antti |
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