Your gearing is obsolete

On 6/11/2020 3:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 2:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:53:39 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

Only 12 gears on the freewheel? How about 21 gears?
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/index.html#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg


I can't wait!

BTW, browsing around your photo pile, I was pleased to see
the Berg catalog. Always interesting. I wonder if that cable
chain might actually become workable.



They supplied Gossamer Albatross IIRC

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:17:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 2:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:53:39 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

Only 12 gears on the freewheel? How about 21 gears?
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/index.html#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg

I can't wait!

Wait for what? The broken rear axle, shredded freewheel teeth,
excessive chain wear, weird derailleur, or grinding shifts? With a 21
speed freewheel, you can have all of these (if you wait long enough).

Effects of the chainrings size difference on chain rubbing
http://www.dobrianov.net/bike_chain_line/chainline.html

BTW, browsing around your photo pile, I was pleased to see the Berg
catalog. Always interesting. I wonder if that cable chain might actually
become workable.

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Berg/index.html
The Berg stuff is from a previous discussion on the possibility of
using their cable chains on a bicycle. I couldn't find the thread
using Google groups search.

As I recall, the problem was that the plastic parts of the chain
cannot handle the power or load. 300 lbs maximum or 70 lbs per link.
It can probably be made to work for light loads. Damage to the
plastic cross rollers by the sharp edges of the mating gear teeth will
likely wear the plastic parts rather rapidly.

There was also a problem with the length of the chain loop, which had
to be ordered cut to length. There is a removable link to allow it to
be installed and removed, but no way to attach the removable link to a
cut cable.

Still, the light weight, low noise, and no lube, makes such a chain
rather attractive, even if the chain is essentially a throw away. I
must confess that I've done nothing with the idea since it was last
discussed.

If you have a copy of Bicycling Science 3rd Edition by David Gordon
Wilson, there is a short discussion of the Berg SpeedE flexible drive
on Pg 324. SpeedE is a somewhat different design from the Pow-R-Tow
chain shown in the older printed catalog:

The Berg online catalog shows a variety of plastic chains:
https://www.wmberg.com/products/belts-and-chains
https://www.wmberg.com/products/belts-and-chains/row-l-er




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, 11 June 2020 21:08:38 UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:17:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 2:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:53:39 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

Only 12 gears on the freewheel? How about 21 gears?
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/index.html#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg

I can't wait!

Wait for what? The broken rear axle, shredded freewheel teeth,
excessive chain wear, weird derailleur, or grinding shifts? With a 21
speed freewheel, you can have all of these (if you wait long enough).

Effects of the chainrings size difference on chain rubbing
http://www.dobrianov.net/bike_chain_line/chainline.html

BTW, browsing around your photo pile, I was pleased to see the Berg
catalog. Always interesting. I wonder if that cable chain might actually
become workable.

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Berg/index.html
The Berg stuff is from a previous discussion on the possibility of
using their cable chains on a bicycle. I couldn't find the thread
using Google groups search.

As I recall, the problem was that the plastic parts of the chain
cannot handle the power or load. 300 lbs maximum or 70 lbs per link.
It can probably be made to work for light loads. Damage to the
plastic cross rollers by the sharp edges of the mating gear teeth will
likely wear the plastic parts rather rapidly.

There was also a problem with the length of the chain loop, which had
to be ordered cut to length. There is a removable link to allow it to
be installed and removed, but no way to attach the removable link to a
cut cable.

Still, the light weight, low noise, and no lube, makes such a chain
rather attractive, even if the chain is essentially a throw away. I
must confess that I've done nothing with the idea since it was last
discussed.

If you have a copy of Bicycling Science 3rd Edition by David Gordon
Wilson, there is a short discussion of the Berg SpeedE flexible drive
on Pg 324. SpeedE is a somewhat different design from the Pow-R-Tow
chain shown in the older printed catalog:

The Berg online catalog shows a variety of plastic chains:
https://www.wmberg.com/products/belts-and-chains
https://www.wmberg.com/products/belts-and-chains/row-l-er




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The 21 speed corncob is an April Fool's post along the lines of Sheldon Brown's April 1st posts.

Cheers

On 6/11/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:06:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new 10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist. Be quiet. You probably wear a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!

I seem to remember talk about an increase in cycling when the gasoline
price went sky high. Perhaps that is an easier solution than building
bicycle paths. Just raise the price of fuel :-)

We actually are seeing a surge in bicycling right now.

A friend asked me to give advice on buying two bikes for his twin
7-year-old kids. I had to tell him there are none. I checked four bike
shops to make sure.

But a salesman in one shop said "You could try telling him to look for
used bikes online, but those are pretty hard to find too. Really, next
year will be a _great_ time to buy a used bike! Most people will be
selling the ones they bought."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/11/2020 7:18 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:53:24 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:06:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new 10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist. Be quiet. You probably wear a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!

I seem to remember talk about an increase in cycling when the gasoline
price went sky high. Perhaps that is an easier solution than building
bicycle paths. Just raise the price of fuel :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

The biggest problem I see with bicycle paths is the LACK of infrastructure to bicycle to them.

I prefer to ride on the roads where at least there is modicum of obeying traffic laws unlike rail-trails or MUPs where everyone is doing whatever willy-nilly and often with complete disregard for others on those trails.

As I've written in our club newsletter (and probably here), our club has
_many_ more crashes per mile ridden on MUPs compared to roads.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/11/2020 8:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/11/2020 3:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 2:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:53:39 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/



For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!

Only 12 gears on the freewheel?Â* How about 21 gears?
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/index.html#Corn%2520Cobb%2520Freewheel.jpg



I can't wait!

BTW, browsing around your photo pile, I was pleased to see
the Berg catalog. Always interesting. I wonder if that cable
chain might actually become workable.



They supplied Gossamer Albatross IIRC

They did, and it worked. But the loading situation is quite different.
Very steady, lower torque (I think), short duration and no shock loading.



--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 22:42:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:06:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new 10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist. Be quiet. You probably wear a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!

I seem to remember talk about an increase in cycling when the gasoline
price went sky high. Perhaps that is an easier solution than building
bicycle paths. Just raise the price of fuel :-)

We actually are seeing a surge in bicycling right now.

Errr... what is a surge? Or rather how large is a surge :-)


A friend asked me to give advice on buying two bikes for his twin
7-year-old kids. I had to tell him there are none. I checked four bike
shops to make sure.

But a salesman in one shop said "You could try telling him to look for
used bikes online, but those are pretty hard to find too. Really, next
year will be a _great_ time to buy a used bike! Most people will be
selling the ones they bought."
--
cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:54:13 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:13:07 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 2:14 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 8:01:23 PM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 11:53:41 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/

For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new
10~50 cassette!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

How does the weight of that 10-50 cassette compare to a three allow chainrings and a 7-speed or 8-speed steel cassette of 14-32?

Weight isn't the reason to come up with this kind of stuff. Get rid of the FD is.

Because it's SO difficult to move another lever?


--
- Frank Krygowski

No, to shift both levers at the same time. Another solution for that problem is synchronized shifting with Di2 system.

I wonder if there's a discussion group where the two sides a

"You MUST have multiple chainrings because you MUST have the ability to
micro-adjust your cadence!"

vs.

"Being within 15% of the ideal gear is fine! You MUST be free of
shifting another derailleur!"

I'd be happy to just watch from the sidelines.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Why choose? You can have multiple bicycles for different kind of rides. You mist that concept. In the Netherlands a triple or a double chainrings is a ridiculous choice being flat as a pancake. A 1*X is the best choice for utility riding. Simplicity and a close ratio cassette.

Lou

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:06:56 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new 10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar bag and all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist. Be quiet. You probably wear a helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk or crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!


--
- Frank Krygowski

What has that to do with the fact that I prefer using my car for groceries and not my bike. I only use my bike for non fun rides if it is more practical.

Lou

wrote:
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:06:56 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:35:56 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:23:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2020 11:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/23/com...nx-gx-x01-xx1/


For those who fondly recall 13~17 freewheels, there's a new 10~50 cassette!

50 teeth! Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when my 34 tooth biggest
cog was considered too small.

I'm getting a little out of date. I gotta catch up.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, you give us a voucher to make fun of your dorky handlebar bag and
all the other stuff you bolted to your bike one more time. Keep up the good work.

You are not a true utility cyclist. Be quiet. You probably wear a
helmet, also known as a head-shackle.

-- Jay Beattie.

I'm certainly not a true utility cyclist. Hauling gallons of milk or
crates of beer seems silly to me if you have a car on your driveway.

That's interesting. The U.S. currently has an enthusiastic industry and
publicity machine saying we should build Netherlands-style bike paths
everywhere.

Why? Because then people will stop driving their cars!


--
- Frank Krygowski

What has that to do with the fact that I prefer using my car for
groceries and not my bike. I only use my bike for non fun rides if it is more practical.

Lou


I think it’s the “fun� part that some apparently find objectionable.