Disc brake failure

Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.

Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds
like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And I’ve
gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds
like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And I’ve
gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

I'd be curious if Joerg or any of the MTBers have had serious fade or pad glaze. Euro-pros are typically light weight and don't hang on their brakes -- but they do long, steep downhills on relatively small rotors, so it could happen (?).

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/20/2020 10:27 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds
like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And I’ve
gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

I'd be curious if Joerg or any of the MTBers have had serious fade or pad glaze. Euro-pros are typically light weight and don't hang on their brakes -- but they do long, steep downhills on relatively small rotors, so it could happen (?).

I think the duty cycle for mountainous road racing is WAY different than
for almost all mountain biking. I doubt Joerg ever does a long, high
speed descent, the kind that would really cook the brakes.

When I was a teenager, I had a little economy car with what seemed to me
to be oversized finned brake drums. I had never experienced brake fade.
Out of curiosity, I decided to test the brakes by doing multiple hard
stops from some fairly high speed, perhaps 60 mph.

About three hard stops went perfectly well, convincing me that the large
drums on the light car were fade proof. On the fourth stop, fade
occurred suddenly and asymetrically. The little car swerved back and
forth all over the road, and I was lucky to control it.

I don't know the exact cause - perhaps outgassing from the friction
material? - but it was sudden and extreme. Discs are less likely to
fade, but they're not fade proof. I can envision fade happening on a
long racing descent.

And I've mentioned the bike tourist we hosted whose disc pads wore away
completely on a loaded tour in the Appalachians. Probably not Pellaud's
problem, but worth remembering nonetheless.

Beware of risk compensation, as in "I've got disc brakes! These stop
perfectly every time!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, 20 August 2020 10:28:00 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds
like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And I’ve
gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

I'd be curious if Joerg or any of the MTBers have had serious fade or pad glaze. Euro-pros are typically light weight and don't hang on their brakes -- but they do long, steep downhills on relatively small rotors, so it could happen (?).

-- Jay Beattie.

My buddy ten + years ago bought a $1,500.00 CDN DaVinci MTB with mechanical disc brakes. He rode on pave roads and rail-trails that had limestone stone dust surfaces and went through the disc pads so fast (the bike shops couldn't figure out why) t hat he switched the wheels for V-brake compatible ones and put V-brake studs onto the front fork (the studs screwed into holes already on t he fork) and V-brakes on the rear and has never had problems braking and his V-brake pads last a long time = much, much longer than his disc pads ever did.

Cheers

On 2020-08-20 07:27, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman
wrote:
Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J.
wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the
failure are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/



Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache
components. Sounds like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear
down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I
assume) braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of
kiloJoules into those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And
I’ve gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

I'd be curious if Joerg or any of the MTBers have had serious fade or
pad glaze. Euro-pros are typically light weight and don't hang on
their brakes -- but they do long, steep downhills on relatively small
rotors, so it could happen (?).


A riding buddy had his front disc brake fade out at the end of a long
descent. He was in front of me and I wondered why he started speeding up
before a sharp 90-degree turn. Gravel flying everywhere and later he
came to a stop in a plume of dust. Luckily he is also a dirt bike rider
so he knows how to get the bike into a full skid without losing control.

I never had mine fail to brake but I had the rear lock up on me once.
The pad material had seperated from the carrier metal, jammed in ...
plume of gravel and dust and the bike stopped without me touching a handle.

However, that all is nothing compared to the rain strom "free fall" and
cable snaps of rim brakes. Had a lot of those.

Oh, and I installed 8" rotors front and back on my MTB. That makes a
world of difference. Another trick is to spritz water onto the disc ...
phssss ... not something you'd want to do with a rim.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 10:43:13 PM UTC+1, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Everywhere I ride, even the smallest lanes, is blacktop, so there is no challenge to brakes by dust or gravel or whatever, nothing like Joerg or Ridelot describe. There is no commoting and no riding in stop-start city traffic, nor am I a nervous nellie who rides the brakes on the downhills. The only hard braking occurs at stop signs at crossroads at the bottoms of big hills, not even once per ride. But on a Shimano mechanical cable actuated disc on my Gazelle Toulouse, I never saw a 1000m on a set of pads. Changing from Shimano pads to aftermarket pads didn't help, nor could we find anything wrong with the rotor or the alignment of the pads. By contrast, I got 10,000km/6200m on a set of blocks on the Magura Rim Hydraulics on my Utopia Kranich, a big fast bike with a motor which often carries heavy gear. Makes me think there's something fundamental wrong with the disc brakes marketed for bikes.

Andre Jute
Not all engineering is equal

jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark J. wrote:
On 8/19/2020 3:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 2:43:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
Read all about it; sadly the article says no *details* of the failure
are known at this time.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gir...brake-failure/

Mark J.

Wow. Both brakes? Bottecchia bikes with Dura-Ache components. Sounds
like sabotage by Astana.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah. Hard to imagine a pro mechanic letting the pads wear down.

Is pad glazing a thing? These guys are going really fast and (I assume)
braking really hard at times; they can dump a LOT of kiloJoules into
those pads in a really short period of time.

Mark J.


Brake fad is, if you drag on the brakes and such.

Though personally I’ve had this with cars but never bikes yet! And I’ve
gone down far bigger hills on a bike.

Roger Merriman

I'd be curious if Joerg or any of the MTBers have had serious fade or pad
glaze. Euro-pros are typically light weight and don't hang on their
brakes -- but they do long, steep downhills on relatively small rotors,
so it could happen (?).

-- Jay Beattie.

Most of the alp type hills are fairly shallow in grade most average below
10%, it’s the shorter steeper stuff I personally experienced some mild
brake fad on older cars.

As it’s average grade was so steep getting on for 20% average.

I’ve never had brake fade, on the MTB/Gravel bikes, But certainly got
things hot again on very steep stuff, that your also having to keep using
the brakes, there is a rather fun plummet down a old tram line, that is a
over 20% average and if you ride it hard you can hear the disks sizzling
from the wet vegetation!

On bigger hills the grade is not so bad and particularly on road you can
thread your way down with out too much issue, even with full panniers etc,
the old MTB I couldn’t detect any temp change after dropping 3 miles and
1000ft or so.

Roger Merriman