Park Tools

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 6:08:27 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 4:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2020 03:43:06 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 10:54:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2020 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:13:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/24/2020 2:26 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-7, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:21, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tools like the Park cable cutters are superior to Pedro because they
cut the outer cables cleanly and straight while the Pedro tried to cut
at an angle commensurate with the winding of the steel outer cable.
I recently bought a cheap rotary tool (Dremel clone) for ~20 GBP, for
non bike stuff, but the results cutting outer cables were perfect.
I don't know how to respond to that. Using power tools to work on bikes
has never been my practice.


You should try it. A Dremel and an abrasive cutoff disk give marvellous
clean cuts on cables and housing.


We like Felco cutters for wire and gear casing but if you
look closely at factory setups they're clearly using a
cutoff disc.

We're frequently in odd spaces at odd angles. Factory is
slicing hundreds of alike sections with a gauge or stop
block or whatever.

Although granted this may seem like being too particular but I do
examine the cut end of the cable as a dull "cutter" may bend some of
the casing toward the center and I find that can impair the easy entry
of the inner cable and I have found more then one "self installed"
cable to have this problem.
Since it takes a minute to open the Dremel case and plug it in, I
usually cut housing with a cable cutter then grind square with the bench
grinder. It's ready immediately and three feet away. With lined cable
housing, I then poke in a scribe tool to open the end of the
heat-softened liner.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Agree. I have a Park cable cutter, which I use to cut housing. I think I cut the actual cable with my Klein diagonal cutters. Then smooth the housing end with the side of the grinding wheel. 8 inch 120 grit white wheel.. Quality wheel, not one of those garbage gray concrete wheels that come stock on most bench grinders.
If you're putting the outer into a cable end why would you bother?


Because I do things correctly. Sloppy, trashy work is sloppy and trashy. Not something I have ever done. By your logic, only a fool would put finish paint and clearcoat on the underside of the bottom bracket. Why would you put anything other than a coat of primer on the bottom of the bottom bracket? Its never seen. Yet I suspect you would scream your head off on this forum if you bought a new Trek or Specialized with a crap paint job under the bottom bracket.







And as information - without anything other than a couple of pictures of the damage, Park Tool is honoring their lifetime limited warranty and sending me a new handle for my chain breaker. Even the My Pillow guy (Mike Lindell) took several weeks to replace My Pillow after I washed it and it started mildewing. After that I was careful to only take them to commercial laundromats that could fully dry them out in commercial sized dryers.

A bicycle shop I worked at in the 1980s had us disconnect all cables, remove the ferrules and check that the ends of cable housings were square. New ferrules were then added. Inner cables (before Teflon lined housings) were lubed with a light grease. We also squeezed brake levers hard to fully seat everything and to make sure the ferrule would hold up.

There is on substitute for a job really well done.

I've seen outer cables cut so the helical wire housing ended in a sharp
edge that scraped the inner wire, hampering shifting. I think it pays to
grind it square and give it a quick inspection.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Shift outer cables don't have an helical wire since index shifting.

Lou

On 8/30/2020 12:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 6:08:27 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 4:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2020 03:43:06 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 10:54:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2020 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:13:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/24/2020 2:26 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-7, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:21, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tools like the Park cable cutters are superior to Pedro because they
cut the outer cables cleanly and straight while the Pedro tried to cut
at an angle commensurate with the winding of the steel outer cable.
I recently bought a cheap rotary tool (Dremel clone) for ~20 GBP, for
non bike stuff, but the results cutting outer cables were perfect.
I don't know how to respond to that. Using power tools to work on bikes
has never been my practice.


You should try it. A Dremel and an abrasive cutoff disk give marvellous
clean cuts on cables and housing.


We like Felco cutters for wire and gear casing but if you
look closely at factory setups they're clearly using a
cutoff disc.

We're frequently in odd spaces at odd angles. Factory is
slicing hundreds of alike sections with a gauge or stop
block or whatever.

Although granted this may seem like being too particular but I do
examine the cut end of the cable as a dull "cutter" may bend some of
the casing toward the center and I find that can impair the easy entry
of the inner cable and I have found more then one "self installed"
cable to have this problem.
Since it takes a minute to open the Dremel case and plug it in, I
usually cut housing with a cable cutter then grind square with the bench
grinder. It's ready immediately and three feet away. With lined cable
housing, I then poke in a scribe tool to open the end of the
heat-softened liner.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Agree. I have a Park cable cutter, which I use to cut housing. I think I cut the actual cable with my Klein diagonal cutters. Then smooth the housing end with the side of the grinding wheel. 8 inch 120 grit white wheel. Quality wheel, not one of those garbage gray concrete wheels that come stock on most bench grinders.
If you're putting the outer into a cable end why would you bother?


Because I do things correctly. Sloppy, trashy work is sloppy and trashy. Not something I have ever done. By your logic, only a fool would put finish paint and clearcoat on the underside of the bottom bracket. Why would you put anything other than a coat of primer on the bottom of the bottom bracket? Its never seen. Yet I suspect you would scream your head off on this forum if you bought a new Trek or Specialized with a crap paint job under the bottom bracket.







And as information - without anything other than a couple of pictures of the damage, Park Tool is honoring their lifetime limited warranty and sending me a new handle for my chain breaker. Even the My Pillow guy (Mike Lindell) took several weeks to replace My Pillow after I washed it and it started mildewing. After that I was careful to only take them to commercial laundromats that could fully dry them out in commercial sized dryers.

A bicycle shop I worked at in the 1980s had us disconnect all cables, remove the ferrules and check that the ends of cable housings were square. New ferrules were then added. Inner cables (before Teflon lined housings) were lubed with a light grease. We also squeezed brake levers hard to fully seat everything and to make sure the ferrule would hold up.

There is on substitute for a job really well done.

I've seen outer cables cut so the helical wire housing ended in a sharp
edge that scraped the inner wire, hampering shifting. I think it pays to
grind it square and give it a quick inspection.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Shift outer cables don't have an helical wire since index shifting.

Right. Nonetheless, I've seen that on bikes I've worked on. Not all
older bikes have had all their cable housings replaced.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 6:08:27 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 4:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2020 03:43:06 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 10:54:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2020 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:13:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/24/2020 2:26 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-7, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:21, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tools like the Park cable cutters are superior to Pedro because they
cut the outer cables cleanly and straight while the Pedro tried to cut
at an angle commensurate with the winding of the steel outer cable.
I recently bought a cheap rotary tool (Dremel clone) for ~20 GBP, for
non bike stuff, but the results cutting outer cables were perfect.
I don't know how to respond to that. Using power tools to work on bikes
has never been my practice.


You should try it. A Dremel and an abrasive cutoff disk give marvellous
clean cuts on cables and housing.


We like Felco cutters for wire and gear casing but if you
look closely at factory setups they're clearly using a
cutoff disc.

We're frequently in odd spaces at odd angles. Factory is
slicing hundreds of alike sections with a gauge or stop
block or whatever.

Although granted this may seem like being too particular but I do
examine the cut end of the cable as a dull "cutter" may bend some of
the casing toward the center and I find that can impair the easy entry
of the inner cable and I have found more then one "self installed"
cable to have this problem.
Since it takes a minute to open the Dremel case and plug it in, I
usually cut housing with a cable cutter then grind square with the bench
grinder. It's ready immediately and three feet away. With lined cable
housing, I then poke in a scribe tool to open the end of the
heat-softened liner.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Agree. I have a Park cable cutter, which I use to cut housing. I
think I cut the actual cable with my Klein diagonal cutters. Then
smooth the housing end with the side of the grinding wheel. 8 inch
120 grit white wheel. Quality wheel, not one of those garbage gray
concrete wheels that come stock on most bench grinders.
If you're putting the outer into a cable end why would you bother?


Because I do things correctly. Sloppy, trashy work is sloppy and
trashy. Not something I have ever done. By your logic, only a fool
would put finish paint and clearcoat on the underside of the bottom
bracket. Why would you put anything other than a coat of primer on
the bottom of the bottom bracket? Its never seen. Yet I suspect you
would scream your head off on this forum if you bought a new Trek or
Specialized with a crap paint job under the bottom bracket.







And as information - without anything other than a couple of pictures
of the damage, Park Tool is honoring their lifetime limited warranty
and sending me a new handle for my chain breaker. Even the My Pillow
guy (Mike Lindell) took several weeks to replace My Pillow after I
washed it and it started mildewing. After that I was careful to only
take them to commercial laundromats that could fully dry them out in
commercial sized dryers.

A bicycle shop I worked at in the 1980s had us disconnect all cables,
remove the ferrules and check that the ends of cable housings were
square. New ferrules were then added. Inner cables (before Teflon lined
housings) were lubed with a light grease. We also squeezed brake levers
hard to fully seat everything and to make sure the ferrule would hold up.

There is on substitute for a job really well done.

I've seen outer cables cut so the helical wire housing ended in a sharp
edge that scraped the inner wire, hampering shifting. I think it pays to
grind it square and give it a quick inspection.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Shift outer cables don't have an helical wire since index shifting.

Lou


Still, having the end square and smooth is what most of us would call “a
good thing�.

On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 2:14:03 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 6:08:27 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 4:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2020 03:43:06 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 10:54:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2020 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:13:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/24/2020 2:26 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-7, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:21, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tools like the Park cable cutters are superior to Pedro because they
cut the outer cables cleanly and straight while the Pedro tried to cut
at an angle commensurate with the winding of the steel outer cable.
I recently bought a cheap rotary tool (Dremel clone) for ~20 GBP, for
non bike stuff, but the results cutting outer cables were perfect.
I don't know how to respond to that. Using power tools to work on bikes
has never been my practice.


You should try it. A Dremel and an abrasive cutoff disk give marvellous
clean cuts on cables and housing.


We like Felco cutters for wire and gear casing but if you
look closely at factory setups they're clearly using a
cutoff disc.

We're frequently in odd spaces at odd angles. Factory is
slicing hundreds of alike sections with a gauge or stop
block or whatever.

Although granted this may seem like being too particular but I do
examine the cut end of the cable as a dull "cutter" may bend some of
the casing toward the center and I find that can impair the easy entry
of the inner cable and I have found more then one "self installed"
cable to have this problem.
Since it takes a minute to open the Dremel case and plug it in, I
usually cut housing with a cable cutter then grind square with the bench
grinder. It's ready immediately and three feet away. With lined cable
housing, I then poke in a scribe tool to open the end of the
heat-softened liner.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Agree. I have a Park cable cutter, which I use to cut housing. I
think I cut the actual cable with my Klein diagonal cutters. Then
smooth the housing end with the side of the grinding wheel. 8 inch
120 grit white wheel. Quality wheel, not one of those garbage gray
concrete wheels that come stock on most bench grinders.
If you're putting the outer into a cable end why would you bother?


Because I do things correctly. Sloppy, trashy work is sloppy and
trashy. Not something I have ever done. By your logic, only a fool
would put finish paint and clearcoat on the underside of the bottom
bracket. Why would you put anything other than a coat of primer on
the bottom of the bottom bracket? Its never seen. Yet I suspect you
would scream your head off on this forum if you bought a new Trek or
Specialized with a crap paint job under the bottom bracket.







And as information - without anything other than a couple of pictures
of the damage, Park Tool is honoring their lifetime limited warranty
and sending me a new handle for my chain breaker. Even the My Pillow
guy (Mike Lindell) took several weeks to replace My Pillow after I
washed it and it started mildewing. After that I was careful to only
take them to commercial laundromats that could fully dry them out in
commercial sized dryers.

A bicycle shop I worked at in the 1980s had us disconnect all cables,
remove the ferrules and check that the ends of cable housings were
square. New ferrules were then added. Inner cables (before Teflon lined
housings) were lubed with a light grease. We also squeezed brake levers
hard to fully seat everything and to make sure the ferrule would hold up.

There is on substitute for a job really well done.

I've seen outer cables cut so the helical wire housing ended in a sharp
edge that scraped the inner wire, hampering shifting. I think it pays to
grind it square and give it a quick inspection.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Shift outer cables don't have an helical wire since index shifting.

Lou

Still, having the end square and smooth is what most of us would call “a
good thing�.
t reason that I was complimenting my Park Cable cutters is because they make a square end vs. my Pedro cutter Now you have to be a little careful where the cut is - that it bisects the cable and doesn't leave a razor thin piece but it cuts clean.

While waiting for my Park replacement chain breaker top, I bought a cheap Chinese thinking that for fitting one chain what could I lose. Well, I cut a link off and 11 speed chains are so tough that it apparently bent the cable holder so that when I tried to use it again it turned and bent the pin pusher. An American chain breaker is due tomorrow if the Park doesn't come in and I'll see if that works.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 15:30:09 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/30/2020 12:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, August 30, 2020 at 6:08:27 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2020 4:43 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2020 03:43:06 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 10:54:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 24, 2020 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2020 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 16:13:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/24/2020 2:26 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-7, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 22/08/2020 17:21, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tools like the Park cable cutters are superior to Pedro because they
cut the outer cables cleanly and straight while the Pedro tried to cut
at an angle commensurate with the winding of the steel outer cable.
I recently bought a cheap rotary tool (Dremel clone) for ~20 GBP, for
non bike stuff, but the results cutting outer cables were perfect.
I don't know how to respond to that. Using power tools to work on bikes
has never been my practice.


You should try it. A Dremel and an abrasive cutoff disk give marvellous
clean cuts on cables and housing.


We like Felco cutters for wire and gear casing but if you
look closely at factory setups they're clearly using a
cutoff disc.

We're frequently in odd spaces at odd angles. Factory is
slicing hundreds of alike sections with a gauge or stop
block or whatever.

Although granted this may seem like being too particular but I do
examine the cut end of the cable as a dull "cutter" may bend some of
the casing toward the center and I find that can impair the easy entry
of the inner cable and I have found more then one "self installed"
cable to have this problem.
Since it takes a minute to open the Dremel case and plug it in, I
usually cut housing with a cable cutter then grind square with the bench
grinder. It's ready immediately and three feet away. With lined cable
housing, I then poke in a scribe tool to open the end of the
heat-softened liner.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Agree. I have a Park cable cutter, which I use to cut housing. I think I cut the actual cable with my Klein diagonal cutters. Then smooth the housing end with the side of the grinding wheel. 8 inch 120 grit white wheel. Quality wheel, not one of those garbage gray concrete wheels that come stock on most bench grinders.
If you're putting the outer into a cable end why would you bother?


Because I do things correctly. Sloppy, trashy work is sloppy and trashy. Not something I have ever done. By your logic, only a fool would put finish paint and clearcoat on the underside of the bottom bracket. Why would you put anything other than a coat of primer on the bottom of the bottom bracket? Its never seen. Yet I suspect you would scream your head off on this forum if you bought a new Trek or Specialized with a crap paint job under the bottom bracket.







And as information - without anything other than a couple of pictures of the damage, Park Tool is honoring their lifetime limited warranty and sending me a new handle for my chain breaker. Even the My Pillow guy (Mike Lindell) took several weeks to replace My Pillow after I washed it and it started mildewing. After that I was careful to only take them to commercial laundromats that could fully dry them out in commercial sized dryers.

A bicycle shop I worked at in the 1980s had us disconnect all cables, remove the ferrules and check that the ends of cable housings were square. New ferrules were then added. Inner cables (before Teflon lined housings) were lubed with a light grease. We also squeezed brake levers hard to fully seat everything and to make sure the ferrule would hold up.

There is on substitute for a job really well done.

I've seen outer cables cut so the helical wire housing ended in a sharp
edge that scraped the inner wire, hampering shifting. I think it pays to
grind it square and give it a quick inspection.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Shift outer cables don't have an helical wire since index shifting.

Right. Nonetheless, I've seen that on bikes I've worked on. Not all
older bikes have had all their cable housings replaced.

I believe that brake cable housings are all helically wound but shift
cables are made differently with linear strands to be non compressing
or some such term.
see https://jagwire.com/products/diy-cable-kits
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 01/09/2020 04:38, John B. wrote:
I believe that brake cable housings are all helically wound but shift
cables are made differently with linear strands to be non compressing
or some such term.
seehttps://jagwire.com/products/diy-cable-kits

Compression-less cables are recommended for mechanical disk brakes.

They seem to offer an improvement but it is quite difficult/subjective
to tell how much, i.e. not as big a difference as that between using a
crap rim brake block and something like Kool-Stop Salmon.

On 9/2/2020 6:56 AM, Sock Puppet wrote:
On 01/09/2020 04:38, John B. wrote:
I believe that brake cable housings are all helically
wound but shift
cables are made differently with linear strands to be non
compressing
or some such term.
seehttps://jagwire.com/products/diy-cable-kits

Compression-less cables are recommended for mechanical disk
brakes.

They seem to offer an improvement but it is quite
difficult/subjective to tell how much, i.e. not as big a
difference as that between using a crap rim brake block and
something like Kool-Stop Salmon.

Strongly disagree. Linear casing under braking force can
split open the long way; don't do that, use spiral brake casing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sock Puppet, 2020-09-02 13:56+0200:
Compression-less cables are recommended for mechanical disk brakes.

Why specifically for disk brakes and not V-brakes, for example? Would it
be because they require a shorter cable pull, compared to which the
housing compression is more significant?

--
Tanguy

On 02/09/2020 15:25, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Sock Puppet, 2020-09-02 13:56+0200:
Compression-less cables are recommended for mechanical disk brakes.

Why specifically for disk brakes and not V-brakes, for example? Would it
be because they require a shorter cable pull, compared to which the
housing compression is more significant?


I think because the cable housings are longer, due to the positioning of
the brake calipers. So more to compress. But I don't know for sure.

Sock Puppet, 2020-09-02 17:46+0200:
On 02/09/2020 15:25, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Sock Puppet, 2020-09-02 13:56+0200:
Compression-less cables are recommended for mechanical disk brakes.

Why specifically for disk brakes and not V-brakes, for example? Would it
be because they require a shorter cable pull, compared to which the
housing compression is more significant?


I think because the cable housings are longer, due to the positioning of
the brake calipers. So more to compress. But I don't know for sure.

I doubt it. The difference of housing length between disk brakes rim
brakes is significant for the front brake only.

For the rear brake, many bikes have a single housing that goes all the
way from the brake lever to the brake calliper, so the difference
between having the brake just below the saddle or near the rear hub is
not really significant.

--
Tanguy