Rear Campy hubs and alternate rear wheels

I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when
combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

On 3/26/2011 6:33 PM, Chris M wrote:
I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when

More dish is bad for wheel strength.

combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

Even better values in pre-built wheels from standard parts that just
need some truing and stress relief.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

Most of these special parts are designed for selling.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Not a good idea unless you are a trained machinist.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

The downside of buying wheels in a box with special parts.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

30 to 50 mm what? Depth of rim?

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

If Jobst Brandt were here, he would write that the "in advance" is
redundant.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Chris M wrote:
I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when
combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

One answer may be new Campagnolo Sciroccos at $349/pair
Khamsin are less but heavier.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Used bicycle parts, sometimes even unused but old bicycle parts, show up
all the time on ebay. You might just be able to find yourself another
set of the wheels you liked. I realize that's not an answer to the
question you asked, but I am a big fan of both buying used to save money
and of sticking with what you know works for you.

-S-

Chris M wrote:
I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when
combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

On Mar 26, 4:33*pm, Chris M wrote:
I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when
combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

By the way, what are you trying to accomplish? Is this a racing wheel
or special purpose wheel of some sort? I assume that since you're
looking for a 30-50mm rim, you want something aerodynamic. There is
no way to home-build the wheel you want in a non-kludge way absent
access to blank rims and a good drill press and Chalo doing a house
call. There are lots of boxed wheels that fit the bill -- like the
Campagnolo Sciroccos mentioned by Andrew. If you are trying to save
weight, a plain old DA or Ultegra hub laced to o a Velocity Aerohead
OC (off-center drillings to improve dish) is lighter than a Scirocco
rear. Many of the boxed wheels are heavier than conventional spoked
wheels. The selling point is aerodynamics. The downside is a wheel
that is hard to service. -- Jay Beattie.

Chris M wrote:

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

Velocity B43 rims and 24 spokes on 48 hole hubs. Skip every third
hole on the drive side; use the non-drive side holes that fall in
between the pairs you use on the right. Spoke lengths will be
peculiar-- if you use Spocalc or another calculator that supports
fractional cross patterns, set it to 48 hole and observe the principle
that 15 degrees of relative misalignment between hub and rim
insertions equals one "cross". Use whatever pattern most closely
approximates cross-four on 48h. No need to cross the left side
spokes, but you can if you like using "normal" 16 hole calculator
settings.

While I like weird lacing patterns and the flexible thinking that
gives rise to them, you'll get a lighter, more durable, better
looking, and easier to service wheel by using 32 spokes in a
conventional pattern on an Alex DA28 rim. Instead of using fewer
spokes on the left, just make them thinner; that accomplishes the same
equalizing of spoke stress while doing a much better job of supporting
the rim. Use 14ga DT Champion or 14-15ga DT Competition on the right
and 15-17ga DT Revolution on the left. The cross-sectional area of a
2mm (14ga) spoke is almost double that of a 1.5mm (17ga) spoke.

Chalo

On Mar 27, 1:09*am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 3/26/2011 6:33 PM, Chris M wrote:

I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when

More dish is bad for wheel strength.

It's not an issue when the wheel is well constructed. You're over-
egging the custard. If you understood how a tension spoked wheel
works you should not have made such a loose comment.


combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

Even better values in pre-built wheels from standard parts that just
need some truing and stress relief.

Yes, in your perfectly ordered imagination. In real life, such wheels
still warp all over the place.


The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

Most of these special parts are designed for selling.

And keep production costs down with better wheels.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Not a good idea unless you are a trained machinist.

It's not difficult to divide up a rim or hub.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

The downside of buying wheels in a box with special parts.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

30 to 50 mm what? *Depth of rim?

To some, this may not sound peculiar.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

TIA

If Jobst Brandt were here, he would write that the "in advance" is
redundant.


Instead, it's you who is.
--
T m Sherm n - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Mar 26, 5:33*pm, Chris M wrote:
Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

Quite easy using a 32h hub and a 24h rim that is center-drilled. It's
best if you can get a hub with exceptionally wide NDS spacing... but
Record hubs are ok.

A good deep rim is the Kinlin XR380... (38mm deep). It's the same
company that makes the AC and Rolf rims.

Ron Ruff wrote:

Chris M wrote:

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

Quite easy using a 32h hub and a 24h rim that is center-drilled. *

D'oh! Of course you are right. There's no need making in more
complicated than it is.

But then there is no need to do it at all.

Chalo

On Mar 26, 6:33*pm, Chris M wrote:
I found out in the late 1990s that Campy wheels seem to have more
"dish" in the hubs than virtualy any other that I used, and when
combined with the 2 to 1 rear spokes on selected designs that I got
great shifting performance and extremely strong rear wheels. While I
fully realize that in theory hand-built wheels deliver 'better value'
this is in no way certain, and the reality is for most cyclists who do
not live in communities with quality wheelbuilders (or time to do it
for herself) there are some good wheels and choices among the "system"
wheels.

The fact that all the parts are designed to work together (in cases
where that is true) there are designs that simply are not possible
given the limited range of parts for a user to choose from.

If I could figure out how to build my own 2-1 rear spoke ratios, I
wouldn't need Campy. If there were even reasonable alternatives like
being able to tap one's own rims and hubs, maybe that could be an
option.

Is there any way at all to build a 2 to 1 rear wheel DIY?

On a related question, I have an early (first generation) Eurus rear
wheel with almost 10 years on the rim, but I can't find parts to
rebuild the hub for less than buying an entire hub to harvest from. If
I have to go that route, what are the lowest prices models that are
still compatible? I don't need the cassette carrier, but all the
internal parts, with the possible exception of the aluminum axle
should probably be replaced.

If those 2 routes don't work out, I need to find a wheel to replace
it. I'd like to get a 30 to 50mm aluminum rim preferably with 18 to 27
spokes in the 2 to 1 ratio I mentioned.

After that, I have to consider standard wheels, but I might look at
Rolf Primas and American Classic, each having a fantastic 34mm rim
that I can not find other than on those to OEM only builds.

Ten years' service is pretty good. Look for an NOS item on ebay or
other FS listing? If you actually need to replace due to condition,
that is.

"My" independent mechanic would inspect (including the spokes, looking
for any notches) that wheel, starting with rim condition-- is there
enough "meat" (sidewall thickness) left to spend money on, and no
dents? Then a teardown to look at the internals. Worth replacing
needed parts and rebuilding? Including the cassette carrier... That's
another necessary judgement call.

Who knows, you might be able to spend a little, keep that wheel you
like, and buy a new one (or pair) as a hedge against the future,
especially if you don't go for the big-bux stuff with Campy or
"other".

So, you'd like a deep rim. Maybe you can't readily get the spoke
pattern you want with the rim you want, but IMHO that would be "late"
on the list, as strong wheels can be built using different spoke
patterns-- understanding wanting to keep a config that has served long
and well. Well, like they say, you can do most anything you want, how
much (money/time/effort) do you want to spend?

http://www.rolwheels.com/

These are "local" (Austin Tx). My club (Violet Crown S.A.) has a
sponsorship deal which consists of a discount price. Might be as much
as 20%: I don't remember the figure. I don't own any of these wheels
or plan to get any, any time soon ($$$ being a little tight), and I
don't work for ROL, etc. If that's disclaimer enough, I'm mentioning
these solely because of the very positive feedback from ROL users in
my cohort, and a few wwweb reviews I've read which were written by
riders whom I don't know personally.
--D-y