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#61
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/5/2017 8:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi: WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses surrounding poured into the boat. It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when they did not know: - If others were involved - If more bombs had been placed. If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the interest of saving civilian lives, that was it. Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me like there was much communication going on the more like every amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on the place looking for somebody to shoot. And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm surprised he lived through that debacle. I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been watching The Keystone Cops in action. Heaven forbid something really big happens. While you or I were thinking about, for example, a woman with no legs who watched her child turned to red spray, the officers were likely thinking equally about Sean Colier: "The original question is they walked up to that car and appeared they shot the officer in the head unprovoked, that it was an assassination. But why? How did that fit into their plan? The operating theory now in the investigation is they were short one gun. The older brother had a gun. They wanted to get a gun for the younger brother and the fastest and most efficient way they could think of doing it was a surprise attack on a cop, to take his weapon and go. Officer Collier had a locking holster, it’s like a three-way lock. If you don’t know how to remove the gun, you’re not going to get it out. There was apparently an attempt to yank it and they couldn’t get it and left. “ I'm not excusing it but it's understandable. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#62
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NY bike path mayhem
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 7:16:24 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 8:29 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per AMuzi: WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses surrounding poured into the boat. It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when they did not know: - If others were involved - If more bombs had been placed. If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the interest of saving civilian lives, that was it. Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me like there was much communication going on the more like every amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on the place looking for somebody to shoot. And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm surprised he lived through that debacle. I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been watching The Keystone Cops in action. Heaven forbid something really big happens. While you or I were thinking about, for example, a woman with no legs who watched her child turned to red spray, the officers were likely thinking equally about Sean Colier: "The original question is they walked up to that car and appeared they shot the officer in the head unprovoked, that it was an assassination. But why? How did that fit into their plan? The operating theory now in the investigation is they were short one gun. The older brother had a gun. They wanted to get a gun for the younger brother and the fastest and most efficient way they could think of doing it was a surprise attack on a cop, to take his weapon and go. Officer Collier had a locking holster, it’s like a three-way lock. If you don’t know how to remove the gun, you’re not going to get it out. There was apparently an attempt to yank it and they couldn’t get it and left. “ I'm not excusing it but it's understandable. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 |
#63
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 10:42:15 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 20:24:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems ordinary. One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'Ă* faith. He fled to this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims. He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such an obviously holy man. The official Bahá'Ă* versions are different, shading a bit more toward the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb. A very radical religion. Good Lord they forbid: Backbiting and gossip Drinking or selling alcohol Sexual intercourse outside of marriage Partisan politics Begging as a profession -- Cheers, John B. No, the scheme is a primitive attempt at a five year plan the so called religious aspect is a psychological product of cutting all the trees down followed by desertification |
#65
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: *"As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#66
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? Updates this morning- Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not there yet, arrived later. A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot. You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#67
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NY bike path mayhem
On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: Â* "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? Updates this morning- Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not there yet, arrived later. A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot. You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker. Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that doesn't work either. Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time unless he has his loaded weapon in the church with him and sees Mr Asshole pulling his. These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass killings aren't slowing down. I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some asshole's "right" to have weapons of mass murder supersedes my right to not be shot sitting in a church on a Sunday morning. Thank god I'm an atheist. |
#68
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/6/2017 10:22 AM, Duane wrote:
On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: Â "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? Updates this morning- Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not there yet, arrived later. A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot. You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker. Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that doesn't work either. Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time unless he has his loaded weapon in the church with him and sees Mr Asshole pulling his. These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass killings aren't slowing down. I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some asshole's "right" to have weapons of mass murder supersedes my right to not be shot sitting in a church on a Sunday morning. Thank god I'm an atheist. He's a prohibited felon but ATF passed him in 2016. So much for ' enlightened rule by experts '. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#69
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NY bike path mayhem
On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 9:15:05 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 10:22 AM, Duane wrote: On 06/11/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: Ă‚ "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? Updates this morning- Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not there yet, arrived later. A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot. You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker. Apparently even if you outlaw selling weapons to felons that doesn't work either. Hard to see how Mr Plumber is ever going to be there in time unless he has his loaded weapon in the church with him and sees Mr Asshole pulling his. These arguments against gun control keep happening and mass killings aren't slowing down. I rarely agree with Frank but I'm not seeing how some asshole's "right" to have weapons of mass murder supersedes my right to not be shot sitting in a church on a Sunday morning. Thank god I'm an atheist. He's a prohibited felon but ATF passed him in 2016. So much for ' enlightened rule by experts '. So, if there is an uncontrollable error rate at the federal level, then you limit the available weapon types at the stores. It's like training bartenders to identify visibly intoxicated patrons. If you are some basement dwelling maggot with a scary Facebook page and a criminal history (something easily checked on a state database), then your gun choices a (1) Ruger .22 LR with five shot mag. and a bad OE scope, (2) a double barrel .410 shotgun. That will give you more fire power than the Founding Fathers and satisfy Second Amendment fundamental-rights analysis and reduce blood-baths, unless you're a squirrel. Plan "B" is an MMPI at the place of purchase, in-person interview with two priests, a rabbi and a wise old grandmother. "I know what you intend to do with that, honey." And then you still keep the mag to, say, 10 -- or even six. Cowboys and cops got by with six for years. Founding fathers were lucky to get one shot reliably. -- Jay Beattie. |
#70
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/6/2017 11:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2017 9:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/6/2017 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2017 8:23 AM, wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-churc...ry?id=50958603 from your link: Â* "As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect, Martin said. "The suspect dropped his rifle -- which was a Rueger AR assault-type rifle -- and fled from the church. Our local citizen pursued the suspect at that time." The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to authorities. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said. Interrupted by an armed citizen. Ruger is spelled wrong. An AR is a semi - not a Sturmgewehr. Idiot was prohibited from possessing a firearm, in addition to several and various other illegal acts. You're focusing on minutae. Step back and look at the problem. And don't pretend that mass shootings in America are not a problem. How long was Kelley in the church? How many rounds did he fire? Why does anyone really need to fire more than about ten rounds in one minute, except to commit a mass killing? Are you a "good guy with a gun" fan? If Kelley had been restricted to something like one shot every five seconds, some "good guy with a gun" might have had a chance to stop him. Of course, that requires someone to carry a self-defense weapon into a country church on a Sunday morning. That situation alone is despicable. Why should a private citizen be allowed to buy a rifle with many features designed ONLY for killing human beings and doing it rapidly? Why should such guns be for sale on the open market? Will gun nuts continue to pretend the Founders' "well regulated militia" includes a mass murderer of churchgoers? Updates this morning- Church included among its members the idiot's inlaws. They were not there yet, arrived later. A plumber with no formal training grabbed his rifle, returned fire immediately then flagged a passing car to pursue said idiot. Sorry, that's not exactly what I'm reading. "Tackitt said the gunman entered from the back of the church, fired all the way to the front of the church, and then fired on his way back out of the church. He had time to reload several times, Tackitt said." "As the gunman 'exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect,' Freeman Martin of the Texas Department of Public Safety said." In other words, Kelley had done what he wanted to do. He'd already walked through the church and killed as many as he could, and it sounds like he was leaving. So the guy with the rifle was probably responsible for Kelley dying, but he probably didn't prevent any more churchgoer deaths. You can't outlaw mental illness or stupidity or rage but the survivors appreciate that he was driven off and then stopped. Too bad Mr Plumber wasn't a minute quicker. Too bad Kelley didn't have to reload after every shot. Then Mr. Plumber could have probably saved at least a dozen people. But I'm sure there are gun nuts out there right now, salivating over the efficiency of Kelley's semi-auto fire. "Wow, killing over two dozen in just a couple minutes! I wonder if I can do better?" -- - Frank Krygowski |
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