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#31
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Blocked bike lanes.
On Jun 12, 9:02*pm, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote: What about a cyclist who pays all of that anyway, yet leaves his car in his drive most of the time? He would be a thick ****. Like I said to Mrs M when I turned up at a 5 star hotel in tracky bottoms and a t shirt on Friday, "Don't worry about it - my money is as good as the bloke in a suit". -- Simon Mason |
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#32
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 12/06/2011 19:50, Simon Mason wrote:
You mean you actually expect the typical car driver to actually find a *legal* place to park and then *gasp* walk the rest of the way? You do realise you are talking about a group of people who have no shame in parking in disabled parking spaces to avoid an extra 100 yard trek? No, not really. The hypocrisy is just so absurd. They want cycle lanes, then they want cyclists to use them. They want to park in them, then they complain that cyclists do not use them. Apart from that, the lanes are usually crap anyway. What they *should* do if they *want* cyclists in lanes is to crate lanes fit for the purpose. That means at least 2 metres wide with equal or superior priority to other traffic. Unless they do that, cyclists are not going to use them. |
#33
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Blocked bike lanes.
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 07:36:56 +0100, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote: snip Unless they do that, cyclists are not going to use them. you missed off : And will continue to put themselves in dangerous positions with other traffic. -- DfT latest: UK Per billion passenger kilometres Killed : Pedestrian 26 Cyclist 21 KSI: Pedestrian 319 Cyclist 547 All: Pedestrian 1420 Cyclist 3444 Which is by far the most dangerous? (Thanks to PhilO for the sig idea) |
#34
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Blocked bike lanes.
On Jun 13, 7:36*am, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote: On 12/06/2011 19:50, Simon Mason wrote: You mean you actually expect the typical car driver to actually find a *legal* place to park and then *gasp* walk the rest of the way? You do realise you are talking about a group of people who have no shame in parking in disabled parking spaces to avoid an extra 100 yard trek? No, not really. The hypocrisy is just so absurd. They want cycle lanes, then they want cyclists to use them. They want to park in them, then they complain that cyclists do not use them. Apart from that, the lanes are usually crap anyway. What they *should* do if they *want* cyclists in lanes is to crate lanes fit for the purpose. That means at least 2 metres wide with equal or superior *priority to other traffic. Unless they do that, cyclists are not going to use them. I am glad of them in some case. I have a choice of 5 routes home on my commute. 1) A 40 mph dual carriageway. 2) A parallel cycle path alongside the above road. 3) An off road ex rail line. 4) The local backstreets accessed from the off road rail line. 5) The estuary foreshore path. At different times of day I will choose to use any one of the five, none of which has any parked cars on it. Drivers, OTOH, only have choice 1 at their disposal. -- Simon Mason |
#35
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 12/06/2011 19:31, JNugent wrote:
On 12/06/2011 17:38, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 16:49, ash wrote: On Jun 12, 3:11 pm, wrote: On 12/06/2011 15:00, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 14:52, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 11:20, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 06:21, Doug wrote: All cyclists will have encountered cycle lanes illegally blocked by parked cars but the police seem to do little about it and it is ignored most of the time and it happens in many cities around the world. Motorists seem to imagine they have more of a right to use roads than cyclists. Motorists paid for the cycle lanes& they pay to use the roads. Of course they have more right to use them. Not quite, council tax pays for the roads. And where do they get the money from? Clue; motorists pay 80,000,000,000 a year in taxes. Where did you get that figure from? Vehicle excise duty is around 6bn. You are conveniently forgetting fuel duty, insurance tax levy, Insurance tax levy also applies to other insurance, so it's not a 'tax on motorists'. and also VAT on both. We all pay VAT, it's not a 'tax on motorists' either. But we don't all pay VAT on petrol, car purchase and servicing, spares and repairs and car-parking. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Added to fuel tax and road tax, it's a lot of money. And it's in addition to all the taxes paid by a non-driving citizen. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Don't be obtuse. You, thinking you own the roads because you pay a bit more tax, is the one being obtuse. |
#36
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 13/06/2011 17:49, Dex wrote:
On 12/06/2011 19:31, JNugent wrote: On 12/06/2011 17:38, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 16:49, ash wrote: On Jun 12, 3:11 pm, wrote: On 12/06/2011 15:00, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 14:52, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 11:20, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 06:21, Doug wrote: All cyclists will have encountered cycle lanes illegally blocked by parked cars but the police seem to do little about it and it is ignored most of the time and it happens in many cities around the world. Motorists seem to imagine they have more of a right to use roads than cyclists. Motorists paid for the cycle lanes& they pay to use the roads. Of course they have more right to use them. Not quite, council tax pays for the roads. And where do they get the money from? Clue; motorists pay 80,000,000,000 a year in taxes. Where did you get that figure from? Vehicle excise duty is around 6bn. You are conveniently forgetting fuel duty, insurance tax levy, Insurance tax levy also applies to other insurance, so it's not a 'tax on motorists'. and also VAT on both. We all pay VAT, it's not a 'tax on motorists' either. But we don't all pay VAT on petrol, car purchase and servicing, spares and repairs and car-parking. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Added to fuel tax and road tax, it's a lot of money. And it's in addition to all the taxes paid by a non-driving citizen. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Don't be obtuse. You, thinking you own the roads because you pay a bit more tax, is the one being obtuse. The one being (and I suspect, deliberately) obtuse is the one who recognises and understands that £80,000,000,000 a year (or some sum of the same sort of order) is paid by motorised road-users in *extra* taxes (paid quite additionally to all their other normal prsonal and expenditure-related taxation imposts) and then tries to pretend that just because the Treasury does not say that these sums are set aside to pay for roads (and wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole of it were?), that the owners and operators of motor-vehicles are not paying for roads, several times over. Such an "argument" is childish and evasive - primary school playground standard at best. But you already know that, since you are forced to resort to trying to put your "argument" in such pseudo-specific terms in order for it even to look semi-real. |
#37
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 13/06/2011 07:36, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
What they *should* do if they *want* cyclists in lanes is to crate lanes fit for the purpose. That means at least 2 metres wide with equal or superior priority to other traffic. Unless they do that, cyclists are not going to use them. Why on earth should we waste public money on a minority group like cyclists? -- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
#38
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 13/06/2011 19:02, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:49 pm, wrote: You, thinking you own the roads because you pay a bit more tax, is the one being obtuse.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Quite so. By Nugent's "logic" HGV drivers by virtue of the fact that they pay vastly more in VED, fuel taxes and tolls, not to mention tyres, servicing etc, than the average car driver should be allowed free access to the 3rd lane of motorways to the exclusion of cars, instead of being barred. There is no such logic. The rule barring HGVs from the third lane is a safety rule. A bit like the one barring bikes from the footway, though it hardly needs to be said that HGV drivers are rather better at obeying the law than cyclists are. |
#39
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 13/06/2011 22:05, JNugent wrote:
On 13/06/2011 19:02, Simon Mason wrote: On Jun 13, 5:49 pm, wrote: You, thinking you own the roads because you pay a bit more tax, is the one being obtuse.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Quite so. By Nugent's "logic" HGV drivers by virtue of the fact that they pay vastly more in VED, fuel taxes and tolls, not to mention tyres, servicing etc, than the average car driver should be allowed free access to the 3rd lane of motorways to the exclusion of cars, instead of being barred. There is no such logic. The rule barring HGVs from the third lane is a safety rule. A bit like the one barring bikes from the footway, though it hardly needs to be said that HGV drivers are rather better at obeying the law than cyclists are. Would that have anything to do with registration plates being fitted to HGV's? -- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
#40
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Blocked bike lanes.
On 13/06/2011 22:03, JNugent wrote:
On 13/06/2011 17:49, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 19:31, JNugent wrote: On 12/06/2011 17:38, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 16:49, ash wrote: On Jun 12, 3:11 pm, wrote: On 12/06/2011 15:00, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 14:52, Dex wrote: On 12/06/2011 11:20, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote: On 12/06/2011 06:21, Doug wrote: All cyclists will have encountered cycle lanes illegally blocked by parked cars but the police seem to do little about it and it is ignored most of the time and it happens in many cities around the world. Motorists seem to imagine they have more of a right to use roads than cyclists. Motorists paid for the cycle lanes& they pay to use the roads. Of course they have more right to use them. Not quite, council tax pays for the roads. And where do they get the money from? Clue; motorists pay 80,000,000,000 a year in taxes. Where did you get that figure from? Vehicle excise duty is around 6bn. You are conveniently forgetting fuel duty, insurance tax levy, Insurance tax levy also applies to other insurance, so it's not a 'tax on motorists'. and also VAT on both. We all pay VAT, it's not a 'tax on motorists' either. But we don't all pay VAT on petrol, car purchase and servicing, spares and repairs and car-parking. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Added to fuel tax and road tax, it's a lot of money. And it's in addition to all the taxes paid by a non-driving citizen. None of which is set aside to build and maintain roads. Don't be obtuse. You, thinking you own the roads because you pay a bit more tax, is the one being obtuse. The one being (and I suspect, deliberately) obtuse is the one who recognises and understands that £80,000,000,000 a year (or some sum of the same sort of order) is paid by motorised road-users in *extra* taxes (paid quite additionally to all their other normal prsonal and expenditure-related taxation imposts) and then tries to pretend that just because the Treasury does not say that these sums are set aside to pay for roads (and wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole of it were?), that the owners and operators of motor-vehicles are not paying for roads, several times over. Such an "argument" is childish and evasive - primary school playground standard at best. But you already know that, since you are forced to resort to trying to put your "argument" in such pseudo-specific terms in order for it even to look semi-real. Cyclists get this inaccurate & silly mantra from a web site called "i pay road tax" or something similar. The site content was clearly written by an idiot and cyclists, being of very limited intelligence, have taken it on board rather like a weird religion. -- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
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