|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#191
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Edward Dolan wrote:
... Of course, a discussion between friends is something else entirely and should be off-line. But I do not fall into that category with anyone on this newsgroup.... There's a surprise. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
Ads |
#192
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Edward Dolan wrote:
... Yes, the hatred of Bush is a phenomenon which defies rational explanation.... The hatred of Bill Clinton is a phenomenon that defies rational explanation. ... If any one tells me that the major media are not liberal I think I will go stark raving mad from the frustration of it all.... The mainstream US media is not liberal, but mostly follows the lead of their corporate masters. Now live up to your word, Mr. Dolan. Hell, if it weren't for Fox News, I would already be as mad as a hatter.... The presumption behind the above statement is arguable. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
#193
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Ed:
The only people I know in person who are not "local" to the WHIRL group are Cletus and Arne. I like both of them, although I'm probably not politically compatible with either. So being able to converse with them offline is really quite a good thing. I assure you, nothing of any great importance is discussed. -- --Scott "Edward Dolan" wrote in message om... "Arne" wrote in message news:Ymj6c.12543$rQ.3861@lakeread04... Scott, after writing out a long reply to you personally, no email address.... even at the bottom.... Arne You ought to be posting to the newsgroup so I and others can get in on it. No need to be exclusive here. We are all known to one another by now and we have no secrets from one another. This is a mature newsgroup and you do not need to be concerned about being flamed unless you initiate it. Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#194
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Ed:
I think the URL "wrapped" so you may have to cut and paste whatever is on line 2 to get it to work. -- --Scott "Edward Dolan" wrote in message om... "Freewheeling" wrote in message ... Arne: "What we have now could be much better than it is. It is human nature that has ruined it" So how could it be better than it is? Anyway, since you're bored here a citation to an article written by David Brooks on "bourgeoisophobia." http://www.weeklystandard.com/conten...001/102gwtnf.a sp It's a generalization, but a very powerful one. Your link above does not get me to the citation. Which is too bad as I am always delighted to read about the bourgeoisie, whether for good or ill. But the Weekly Standard is a fine publication and I shall continue to search for the article by David Brooks. Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#195
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
George:
The whole point of Bucky Fuller's housing innovations was to provide people with inexpensive structurally robust homes, built to aircraft tolerances, that also reduced the work and expense of maintenance, and fulfilled needs that current housing doesn't even attempt to meet. Most of his homes don't meet code, because the code is designed for post and lintel construction, and geodesic construction (including tensegrity) is simply a different (and illegal) paradigm. The illegality isn't due to any genuine concerns, but to the lobbying of the building industry. It is true that we're prevented from downgrading at will, but we're also prevented from upgrading, and it's *that* that'll finally cost us. There are analogs in the economy, public finance, etc. Options about which we're so unaware that they aren't even mentioned by anyone. For instance, the reason we have poor people in the first place is that capital is several orders of magnitude more productive than labor, so if you don't control any capital you aren't even a player in this economy. We could change that without indulging in *any* socialistic, welfare-state, needs-based subsidization. We don't because,... well... just guess. -- --Scott "GeoB" wrote in message om... That is the way it is done here in Minnesota too. You will never see a homeless person living on the streets in any small town. It's sort like economy of scale. A small town probably won't build a soup kitchen or rescue mission for just one person. Nevertheless, homelessness should not be permitted. We humans require housing. We are not wild animals. Well.. to introduce some perspective here... the Central California indians were called Digger Indians. They lived (generally) in peace with one another, they had plenty to eat (elk, deer, beaver, etc, wild rice, acorns, tules, pinyon nuts, fish, frogs, birds, tubers...). They were described as being the healthiest bunch of indians the early explorers had seen. The mild climate allowed them to live in modest dwellings made of brush in the warm months. In the winter they would dig a hole, like the forts we built as kids, then cover them with a low teepee shape of logs and stuff, then piled dirt on top. When the explorers arrived the indians appeared to be popping out of the ground! Some of them built buildings of tules. They would bind them up into bundles, then bind those up into small houses. They would weave mats for the floors and walls out of tules, sedges and rushes. But I digress.. I wanted to say that though people CAN easily build cheap housing [2] that will meet their needs in many parts of the country, OUR society has raised the ante to the extent that we are outlawing poor people. The cost and complexity of being 'middle-class' keeps going up. Our environmental laws, as much as I cherish them, and our building codes and zoning.. prevent people from throwing up a shelter to help keep body and soul together. I predict that you won't be as disturbed by this as myself, but the country is getting less and less free. I have always felt that a FREE citizen, ala Thoreau, should be able to live a counter-culture life. I am NOT talking about being a burden, like a beggar or thief, I'm talking about rejecting the value system itself, and building a self-sustaining life apart from it. Like hippies in communes? Well, sure, but there is probably an infinite number of other ways to live. But our laws are seemingly designed to prevent that, to in effect, make it illegal to do anything but produce and consume which is what fuels our profligate way of life. I am not defending a homeless guys right(?) to **** and sleep wherever he wants, etc, but freedom of choice. Our entire system seems designed to make sure it is the ONLY system. And it is a non-sustainable system. For example, our taxation system makes it necessary for one to take part in society to earn money to pay for things one may never use and not value. Like.. well, I don't know, like maybe bus service, or welfare, or a baseball stadium (I hate baseball but I have to pay for our stinkin' stadium), or public school system. Yeah, I can argue their merits too.. but the point is, it is becoming illegal to be poor or to have a value system to far removed from that of the masses. Idaho county, ID where I once lived, at one time had no building code. OK, there were some shacks there. I don't care. I was interested in buying a small piece of land and building a wooden teepee to live in. So who would I be hurting? I don't know. "Oh, but you see, houses need to adhere to code so they will be sanitary and safe". Well, I don't care for the government protecting me by taking my rights. "Well, if you don't value these things, the building code will guarantee to the next resident in the house that it is safe". I DON'T CARE about any next resident, they ain't gonna be no 'next resident'. I wanna build my OWN crooked little house out of crooked little scraps of wood [1], with my crooked little brace & bit, with a home-made woodstove in it. And I'll burn the dang thing down when I'm done with it! Anyone who could not see to their own housing should be institutionalized in public housing, hospitals or jails Read the paragraphs above, one more time. Parts of downtown Seattle are starting to look like Calcutta with all the homeless people Starting? I have some photos I took there.. about 30 years ago.. of a buncha homeless folk wandering the streets. [1] And I'd kinda like to build a Navaho type of lodge, a hogan, too.. I'll bet it would be snug in the winter. Bring a few sticks for the fire, and maybe a fish, some nuts or berries or tubers for the stew, and a good yarn or too, and you can come visit a while. Uh, this isn't a hypothetical lifestyle to me as I have spent many winter evenings sitting talking with friends around a small wood fire in a raggedy hut. I grew up with/around indians, Paiute (means fly-eaters), and Tulababul. [2] A hippy hut I'd like to build someplace: build a circular frame of flexible branches shaped like a wickiup, tied together at the top center. Then dip rags in a slurry of portland cement, and drape them over the frame to make a skin, maybe a couple of layers. Am told it yields a very functional house very fast, winter-proof and cheap. |
#197
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Freewheeling wrote:
... There are analogs in the economy, public finance, etc. Options about which we're so unaware that they aren't even mentioned by anyone. For instance, the reason we have poor people in the first place is that capital is several orders of magnitude more productive than labor, so if you don't control any capital you aren't even a player in this economy. We could change that without indulging in *any* socialistic, welfare-state, needs-based subsidization. We don't because,... well... just guess. Greed. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
#198
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Edward Dolan wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: ... I will have to take stock of myself and I will report back to the newsgroup my findings and reconsiderations. We can barely wait. A brief reading of the article leads me to believe that it should be required reading for everyone who fancies himself a Western intellectual. I am including you in this category somewhat reluctantly. Therefore you should read it and maybe learn something about your own inclinations and prejudices. It won't hurt you to read the article and it might do you some good. Why go through life hating the commercial classes (the bourgeoisie) when you don't have to. I read the article by David Brooks and was not impressed. The same ideas justifying aggression and greed have been trotted out in seemingly endless right wing editorials. I do see why the article would appeal to someone who watches Faux News (sic) or to someone who (possibly on a subconscious level) likes to see problems solved with violence. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
#199
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Edward Dolan wrote:
... Without knowing too much about the particulars of the issue you raise (this never prevents me from commenting about anything though), I would guess that the main reason newer modes of construction don't work out is because they turn out to be more costly. Period! It doesn't matter to the building industry how houses are built. If they can be built more cheaply and there is a demand for it, it will be done. Most new ways of doing things turn out to be not only more costly but wacky besides unfortunately.... Most people are shortsighted when purchasing housing (and many other things) since they only consider the initial cost instead of the life-cycle cost. The typical timber frame, plywood sheeting, drywall and siding construction is the lowest initial cost alternative in the US, and therefore the most common. However, a building made from reinforced masonry or concrete will have significantly lower heating, cooling, fire insurance and maintenance costs. In addition, at the age where the timber frame building requires demolition or costly complete remodeling, the masonry or concrete building will still be functional and economically valuable. Of course there does seem to be a mentality in the US that favors disposable items that are thrown out and replaced with something new - possibly a holdover from the 19th Century when westward expansion did make many living arrangement temporary. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
#200
|
|||
|
|||
Biker Killed by Mountain Lion
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Freewheeling" wrote in message ... And now, apparently, Andrew Sullivan is willing to vote against Bush and has started scraping the sides of the barrel to see if there's anything not repugnant about Kerry. Meanwhile, here's a great read on the historical meaning of "appeasement." Turns out it doesn't really matter what the Spaniards have in mind, or why they voted the way they did: http://www.chicagoreport.net/archives/001139.php An excellent article Scott, very finely nuanced and well written. Another important thing to remember about the Islamic terrorists is that they are clearly not rational. They do not think like how we think. I regard them all as crazed. The degenerate product of a degenerate civilization and a scurrilous religion of medieval origins which hasn't changed one iota in a thousand years.... The other interpretation is to not put yourself on the morally wrong side of a political situation. Being in the morally wrong will force the response to terrorism to be a continuation of the morally wrong action or the appearance of appeasing the terrorists. -- Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Science Proves Mountain Biking Is More Harmful Than Hiking | Stephen Baker | Mountain Biking | 18 | July 16th 04 04:28 AM |
Mountain Lion Kills Mountain Biker | Rob S | Mountain Biking | 4 | January 29th 04 03:55 AM |
Mountain biker killed by mountain lion | Dean A. Stepper | Mountain Biking | 48 | January 18th 04 05:27 PM |
Mountain Lion kills a biker out on trail | Lindsay | Racing | 13 | January 16th 04 04:24 AM |
Mountain biker killed by mountain lion | Mojo Deluxe | Social Issues | 1 | January 14th 04 07:42 PM |