|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
John Dacey writes:
ISTR that an MIT research project, published in the last few years, showed that chain efficiency increased with tension rather than decreasing, rather counterintuitively. They didn't say on what basis this relied. Was this constant bicycle speed or was it percentage loss of input. I doubt that, because as tension increases, lubrication films decrease and friction increases. However, that me be the result of there being loss even with a slack chain and that overhead becomes insignificant at higher loads. Three things are varying in these comparisons, angular articulation of the chain, chain tension, and chain speed. As I see it, a chain running between two 20t sprockets in comparison to one running on two 40t sprockets, transmitting the same rotational torque and speed to the rear wheel have these effects: chain tension 2:1 chain bend 2:1 chain speed 1:2 Since it is chain articulation that causes friction in the links, the smaller sprocket pair has larger bend angle under higher tension although at half the speed. It still worse than the larger sprocket pair. Besides, lubrication failure is greater at higher tension. Is the type of chain construction much of a factor? In what ways will a chain with bushings for its rollers be better/worse than its bushingless counterpart? Bushings give roughly four times the bearing area to the pins than side plates with upset collars give. This alone causes higher wear, but in addition, water intrusion and lubricant loss is accelerated by a fairly direct path into the bearing area of the pin through the gap under the roller. Jobst Brandt |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Joe Riel writes:
Terms ----- Nr = number of teeth of rear sprocket Nf = number of teeth of front chainwheel mu = coefficient of friction in bushing p = chain pitch pi = 3.14159... Pl = power loss in chain Ptot = total power transfer Rb = inner radius of chain bushing Rr = radius of rear sprocket T = chain tension wr = angular velocity of rear sprocket wf = angular velocity of front sprocket (6) Pl/Ptot = 2*pi*mu*Rb/p*(1/Nr + 1/Nf) While this formula is rather simple, it does give results that are consistent with my crude knowledge of chain efficiency. Consider that Rb ~ 0.11 inch p = 0.50 inch mu ~ 0.16 (lubricated steel on steel) Then Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/Nr + 1/Nr) The extremes for a typical road bike are Pl/Ptot|min = (0.22)(1/13 + 1/39) = 2.3% Pl/Ptot|max = (0.22)(1/23 + 1/53) = 1.4% which is about what I would expect, probably lower than achievable. Joe Riel |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Jim Cronin writes:
Bushings give roughly four times the bearing area to the pins than side plates with upset collars give. This alone causes higher wear, but in addition, water intrusion and lubricant loss is accelerated by a fairly direct path into the bearing area of the pin through the gap under the roller. Are there any chains with bushings for 7, 8 or 9 speed drivetrains in current production? Are they any good? No. As I mentioned, with 20t chainwheels and heavy riders, a 5-element derailleur chain one with full sleeves, is probably not safely possible, the sleeve cutting a large hole in the inner side plates. The ones I have are excellent but I can only put less that half the tension in these chains with the gears I ride. I don't have a 20t chainwheel. Jobst Brandt |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Joe Riel writes:
Terms ----- Nr = number of teeth of rear sprocket Nf = number of teeth of front chainwheel mu = coefficient of friction in bushing p = chain pitch pi = 3.14159... Pl = power loss in chain Ptot = total power transfer Rb = inner radius of chain bushing Rr = radius of rear sprocket T = chain tension wr = angular velocity of rear sprocket wf = angular velocity of front sprocket (6) Pl/Ptot = 2*pi*mu*Rb/p*(1/Nr + 1/Nf) While this formula is rather simple, it does give results that are consistent with my crude knowledge of chain efficiency. Consider that Rb ~ 0.11 inch p = 0.50 inch mu ~ 0.16 (lubricated steel on steel) Then Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/Nr + 1/Nr) The extremes for a typical road bike are Pl/Ptot|min = (0.22)(1/13 + 1/39) = 2.3% Pl/Ptot|max = (0.22)(1/23 + 1/53) = 1.4% which is about what I would expect, probably lower than achievable. There are so many constants floating around in these equations that it muddles the picture. Items Nr Nf mu p pi Rb Rr are fixed for the obvious test two cases I proposed, that of a 20t to 20t pair and a 40t to 40t drive train. This gets rid of most of the fog and gets right down to the issue of power loss due to sprocket size... for the same ratio. This would be like a 52t-13t and a 44t-11t for instance but far simpler to analyze in the 20 and 40 arrangement. So what's your take on that? Jobst Brandt |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Tim McNamara writes:
If we shield the chain from road dirt, will it give us the optimum efficiency? Well, there are a number of issues besides cleanliness, as has been discussed in other posts. The roller chain was intended by Mr. Renold to run in an oil bath, if I understand correctly. So a chain in a chain case with an oil bath, over largish cogs and a straight chainline ought to give you the best efficiency. Not to mention lasting much, much longer than exposed bicycle chains. http://www.renold.com/ Automotive timing chains as well as drive transfer chains last for more than 100000 miles of running... at thousands of RPM. They run in a filtered oil bath. Jobst Brandt |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Joe Riel writes:
This would be like a 52t-13t and a 44t-11t for instance but far simpler to analyze in the 20 and 40 arrangement. So what's your take on that? for the 52/13 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/13 + 1/52) = 2.1% for the 44/11 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/11 + 1/44) = 2.5% So the 52/13 is somewhat better. Probably more so, since the chain angle is better and my simplistic formula doesn't consider that. That wasn't the question. It was 20t and 40t, one to one transfer. for 20/20 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/20 + 1/20) = 2.2% for 40/40 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/40 + 1/40) = 1.1% Something doesn't work here! Jobst Brandt |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
Peter Cole writes:
This would be like a 52t-13t and a 44t-11t for instance but far simpler to analyze in the 20 and 40 arrangement. So what's your take on that? for the 52/13 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/13 + 1/52) = 2.1% for the 44/11 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/11 + 1/44) = 2.5% So the 52/13 is somewhat better. Probably more so, since the chain angle is better and my simplistic formula doesn't consider that. That wasn't the question. It was 20t and 40t, one to one transfer. for 20/20 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/20 + 1/20) = 2.2% for 40/40 Pl/Ptot = (0.22)(1/40 + 1/40) = 1.1% Something doesn't work here! Looks OK to me, since articulation losses are inversely proportional to sprocket size, half the size means twice the loss, what doesn't work? That's the point. By having large chainwheels with 50+ teeth, they are practically out of the picture as they obscure the losses at the other end. We should be looking at the losses in small sprockets. By always changing both CW and SPKT's the linear relationship of efficiency to sprocket size is lost. The 20 - 20 and 40 - 40 example demonstrates that. Therefore, other things being equal, a sprocket half the size has half the efficiency. Jobst Brandt |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Most of the Friction In A Bicycle Chain
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
published helmet research - not troll | patrick | Racing | 1790 | November 8th 04 03:16 AM |
published helmet research - not troll | Frank Krygowski | General | 1927 | October 24th 04 06:39 AM |
published helmet research - not troll | Frank Krygowski | Social Issues | 1716 | October 24th 04 06:39 AM |
Reports from Sweden | Garry Jones | General | 17 | October 14th 03 05:23 PM |