Heine on inflation

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-26 05:14, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-19 01:01, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]





I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.


Nope, it's real. You can see that when looking at hands versus terrain.
I ride that stretch sometimes and it does rattle your wrist like crazu
no matter what fork.

it's just a mildly rocky trail/path/road. a modern FS bike is more than
able to float over that sort of stuff.


Nope, you can only know if you ride that part. I do regularly and have
been on FS bikes other than mine. On all of them the handlebar shakes
like crazy on that stretch. Sometimes to the point where on straight
stretches I steer with my fingers to ease the banging into the wrist joints.

Then that video is fairly poor example of what it is like it real life!


How can you know how it is without ever having ridden this trail?


the Video is of mildly rocky trail, a modern FS bike even at speed down
a world cup Downhill track it shouldn't be bucking like mule, the fact
that you've pumped the suspention/tyres pressures rock hard is the
cause.


That guy most likely ran with regular pressure. As I said, I have ridden
it with my bike and also others with 25psi. No difference.


5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


You would not enjoy that trail on a CX.

I fairly regularly ride simular, the danger isn't pinch flats but
sidewall rips from flint.


That, too, on account of the flimsiy side walls of "modern" tires.
However, I've helped people fix pinch flats in such terrain. It's the
usual telltale damage, two fairly large holes next to each others. The
only reason I still carry the patch kit is ... other riders.

Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

If I still used 26" I knew what I'd buy. Maxxis 1040-N, almost the
cheapest tire there is and tough as heck. They should make this in 29"
as well but they fail to see the market. At least in my area there are a
lot of MTB commuters.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I
run the tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for
me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle
strength). No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a
lot. The suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent
bottoming out on fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing
though Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock
here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.


Hence my 55psi pressure plus motorcycle-strength tube plus tire liner
plus old tube over tire liner.

trail tyres ie ones with armoured sidewalls would be a fair bit faster
and not need 55psi etc.


Do you know any 29" ones that are reasonably priced? I mean a tire that
does not add 10c/mile to the operating costs just by itself.

again you have a expensive bike, tyres are such a low % of the cost.


I use my bikes not just for sports or fun but also as transport
vehicles. Cost does matter there.



Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I've got one road bike, one FS MTB and and one older non-suspension MTB.
The latter is used if I have to go somewhere where the theft risk is
higher. Or if one of the other bikes breaks.

This is all I really need because I am not a downhiller, just XC but
then a lot of miles. So I expect bikes to withstand that and also not
incur undue costs per mile.

[...]

I think you are solving problems which are making life difficult for
yourself. ie over inflated tyres and suspension but hey that is your
life!


Well, no flats is what I wanted and no flats is what I got after those
changes :-)

The downside is other riders don't and so sometimes when riding together
that can hold us up ... *PHUT* ... phssseeeeoooouuu.

I also did this (almost) with my road bike, installed Gatorskins and
tubes with 0.120" or 3mm wall thickness all around. Aside from never
having flats anymore this affords a major upside: Hardly any loss of air
after the bikes are parked for a longer time. When I need to ship
something urgent via Fedex and their truck is already through I can just
waltz into the garage, pick either the MTB or the road bike, and I can
be sure that neither is low on air even if that particular bike sat
there for several weeks.

Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:



Then that video is fairly poor example of what it is like it real life!


How can you know how it is without ever having ridden this trail?

This trail isn't in Mars, rocky trails are rocky trails, you get
differnces in how hard the ground is summer/winter and how slippery the
rocks are when wet etc, but fundmently they are the same world over, in
other words there is nothing special about that trail, with the
information you've shown me.

But frankly unless your commuting on DH tracks what you say just doesn't
add up.


the Video is of mildly rocky trail, a modern FS bike even at speed down
a world cup Downhill track it shouldn't be bucking like mule, the fact
that you've pumped the suspention/tyres pressures rock hard is the
cause.


That guy most likely ran with regular pressure. As I said, I have ridden
it with my bike and also others with 25psi. No difference.



Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.

If I still used 26" I knew what I'd buy. Maxxis 1040-N, almost the
cheapest tire there is and tough as heck. They should make this in 29"
as well but they fail to see the market. At least in my area there are a
lot of MTB commuters.

tha

again you have a expensive bike, tyres are such a low % of the cost.


I use my bikes not just for sports or fun but also as transport
vehicles. Cost does matter there.

I commute on a (older MTB) tyres last 2000 miles ish, genrally I buy mid
range which seem to be teh sweet point between wear and cost, the few
very cheap tyres I've trashed in few months, and don't grip or roll
well.

Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.

Roger Meriman

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:



Then that video is fairly poor example of what it is like it real life!


How can you know how it is without ever having ridden this trail?

This trail isn't in Mars, rocky trails are rocky trails, you get
differnces in how hard the ground is summer/winter and how slippery the
rocks are when wet etc, but fundmently they are the same world over, in
other words there is nothing special about that trail, with the
information you've shown me.


It's the size of the rocks that makes the handlebar rattle and there is
no bicycle technology yet that can make that go away. The Citroen DS21
suspension could have a slight chance. But only a slight chance.


But frankly unless your commuting on DH tracks what you say just doesn't
add up.


I do commute on some trail sections like that. Last time was yesterday.
Next time is going to be tomorrow.


the Video is of mildly rocky trail, a modern FS bike even at speed down
a world cup Downhill track it shouldn't be bucking like mule, the fact
that you've pumped the suspention/tyres pressures rock hard is the
cause.


That guy most likely ran with regular pressure. As I said, I have ridden
it with my bike and also others with 25psi. No difference.



Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf.../dp/B007BWRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual brands
or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be surprised
if they had a miracle compound that would make it last longer.

If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.



If I still used 26" I knew what I'd buy. Maxxis 1040-N, almost the
cheapest tire there is and tough as heck. They should make this in 29"
as well but they fail to see the market. At least in my area there are a
lot of MTB commuters.

tha

again you have a expensive bike, tyres are such a low % of the cost.


I use my bikes not just for sports or fun but also as transport
vehicles. Cost does matter there.

I commute on a (older MTB) tyres last 2000 miles ish, genrally I buy mid
range which seem to be teh sweet point between wear and cost, the few
very cheap tyres I've trashed in few months, and don't grip or roll
well.


That must be on easy turf. Forest roads? Out here I have yet to meet a
mountain biker who gets much more than 500mi out of their tires. But
that time they are almost bald in the middle and knobs are torn out
elsewhere.

People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...te_003_lhp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:



Then that video is fairly poor example of what it is like it real life!


How can you know how it is without ever having ridden this trail?

This trail isn't in Mars, rocky trails are rocky trails, you get
differnces in how hard the ground is summer/winter and how slippery the
rocks are when wet etc, but fundmently they are the same world over, in
other words there is nothing special about that trail, with the
information you've shown me.


It's the size of the rocks that makes the handlebar rattle and there is
no bicycle technology yet that can make that go away. The Citroen DS21
suspension could have a slight chance. But only a slight chance.

The rocks aren't that bad, it really doesn't look like that bad trail.
It looks very like some of the tracks you get around my parents place,
modern suspension plus big fat tyres flatten out all but the worse of
that, it's fine on the CX though need to watch sharp edged since they
will slice open light weight sidewalls


But frankly unless your commuting on DH tracks what you say just doesn't
add up.


I do commute on some trail sections like that. Last time was yesterday.
Next time is going to be tomorrow.

thats not a DH track by a long shot.


the Video is of mildly rocky trail, a modern FS bike even at speed down
a world cup Downhill track it shouldn't be bucking like mule, the fact
that you've pumped the suspention/tyres pressures rock hard is the
cause.


That guy most likely ran with regular pressure. As I said, I have ridden
it with my bike and also others with 25psi. No difference.



Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf...-Inch/dp/B007B
WRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual brands
or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be surprised if
they had a miracle compound that would make it last longer.

Thats lighter version and softer compound (I have this) and yes it's
expensive tyre with fairly horrific wear rates, but the perfomance ie
grip, and rock swallowing etc is amazing.

you can get it fair bit cheaper if you shop around. but yes it's not a
cheap tyre.


If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.

To be honest this is the Fast, Good or Cheap triangle. cheaper simper
made tyres may have better wear rates, with harder compounds, but
equally they are likely to give a harsh ride.

Hardcore Competition rider I'm not but the FS MTB is a bike I use for
pleasure not utility, so the cost and wear are accemptabe for use, if I
get 500 miles F/R out of the Hans Dampf I'll be amazed!




If I still used 26" I knew what I'd buy. Maxxis 1040-N, almost the
cheapest tire there is and tough as heck. They should make this in 29"
as well but they fail to see the market. At least in my area there are a
lot of MTB commuters.

tha

again you have a expensive bike, tyres are such a low % of the cost.


I use my bikes not just for sports or fun but also as transport
vehicles. Cost does matter there.

I commute on a (older MTB) tyres last 2000 miles ish, genrally I buy mid
range which seem to be teh sweet point between wear and cost, the few
very cheap tyres I've trashed in few months, and don't grip or roll
well.


That must be on easy turf. Forest roads? Out here I have yet to meet a
mountain biker who gets much more than 500mi out of their tires. But
that time they are almost bald in the middle and knobs are torn out
elsewhere.

that bike is a older commuter bike, so gravel tracks mostly. wear rate
for MTB differs hugely depending on suface and style.

People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...te_003_lhp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

Have you tried it? it is clearly a tech that is improving year on year.
I personally have no real reason to do so though, folks I know who have
swear by it.

Roger Merriman

On 2016-03-31 03:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf...-Inch/dp/B007B
WRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual brands
or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be surprised if
they had a miracle compound that would make it last longer.

Thats lighter version and softer compound (I have this) and yes it's
expensive tyre with fairly horrific wear rates, but the perfomance ie
grip, and rock swallowing etc is amazing.

you can get it fair bit cheaper if you shop around. but yes it's not a
cheap tyre.


I ride mostly on Intense Trail Taker or Geax Saguaro. Grip is fine and
if I don't find anything else with stronger sidewalls yet reasonable
prices ($30) I will stay with these tires.

Running 55psi is tougher but a very small price to pay for never having
a flat.


If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.

To be honest this is the Fast, Good or Cheap triangle. cheaper simper
made tyres may have better wear rates, with harder compounds, but
equally they are likely to give a harsh ride.


I've just come to (grudgingly) accept that there isn't any tire
comparable to the Maxxis 1040N in 29" size so the ride will either be
harsh or very expensive.


Hardcore Competition rider I'm not but the FS MTB is a bike I use for
pleasure not utility, so the cost and wear are accemptabe for use, if I
get 500 miles F/R out of the Hans Dampf I'll be amazed!


Mine is pleasure plus utility. In our area most errand rides are 30-50
miles. Some rides simply cannot be done on a road bikes because there is
only a bush road or single track with rocky stretches. I guess this is
why 90% or bikes parked at the Intel parking lot recently were MTB.

[...]


People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...te_003_lhp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

Have you tried it? it is clearly a tech that is improving year on year.
I personally have no real reason to do so though, folks I know who have
swear by it.


I know such folks as well. Just like many are believing in expensive
tires and low pressures. This is one reason I do not like to ride in
large groups where one has to constantly stop because so-and-so got a
flat. Yesterday was a classic case, only two of us. About eight miles
into the ride ... phssssss ... needless to say, it was of course not my
MTB that got the flat.

Goat's head thorns can quickly end a tubeless ride. It is only a matter
of time.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-31 03:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell well on
a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf...-Inch/dp/B007B
WRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual brands
or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be surprised if
they had a miracle compound that would make it last longer.

Thats lighter version and softer compound (I have this) and yes it's
expensive tyre with fairly horrific wear rates, but the perfomance ie
grip, and rock swallowing etc is amazing.

you can get it fair bit cheaper if you shop around. but yes it's not a
cheap tyre.


I ride mostly on Intense Trail Taker or Geax Saguaro. Grip is fine and
if I don't find anything else with stronger sidewalls yet reasonable
prices ($30) I will stay with these tires.

Running 55psi is tougher but a very small price to pay for never having
a flat.

I run 30psi and have yet to have a pinch flat, thorns etc don't care
what psi it's the thickness of the tyre/hardness of the puncture breaker
etc.


If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.

To be honest this is the Fast, Good or Cheap triangle. cheaper simper
made tyres may have better wear rates, with harder compounds, but
equally they are likely to give a harsh ride.


I've just come to (grudgingly) accept that there isn't any tire
comparable to the Maxxis 1040N in 29" size so the ride will either be
harsh or very expensive.

that kind of is the nub of it.


Hardcore Competition rider I'm not but the FS MTB is a bike I use for
pleasure not utility, so the cost and wear are accemptabe for use, if I
get 500 miles F/R out of the Hans Dampf I'll be amazed!


Mine is pleasure plus utility. In our area most errand rides are 30-50
miles. Some rides simply cannot be done on a road bikes because there is
only a bush road or single track with rocky stretches. I guess this is
why 90% or bikes parked at the Intel parking lot recently were MTB.

[...]


if it is like that video you posted, then a gravel/CX would cope,
smaller rocks are fine, it's big hits that they can't take.

People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...ile:Trte_003_l
hp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

Have you tried it? it is clearly a tech that is improving year on year.
I personally have no real reason to do so though, folks I know who have
swear by it.


I know such folks as well. Just like many are believing in expensive
tires and low pressures. This is one reason I do not like to ride in
large groups where one has to constantly stop because so-and-so got a
flat. Yesterday was a classic case, only two of us. About eight miles
into the ride ... phssssss ... needless to say, it was of course not my
MTB that got the flat.

This is nothing to do with tubeless, a lot of riders are fairly
clueless, sound of maladjusted gears etc and yes overinflated tyres
making them ping off rocks.

Goat's head thorns can quickly end a tubeless ride. It is only a matter
of time.

I'm not a fan of Tubless for my bikes, but if the Goat's head will not
make it through the the admitly thicker than normal innertube then the
sealent will seal, what they will not seal are sidewall slashes.

Roger merriman

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-04-10 09:58, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-31 03:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell
well on a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf...-2-35-Inch/dp/
B007B WRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual
brands or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be
surprised if they had a miracle compound that would make it last
longer.

Thats lighter version and softer compound (I have this) and yes it's
expensive tyre with fairly horrific wear rates, but the perfomance ie
grip, and rock swallowing etc is amazing.

you can get it fair bit cheaper if you shop around. but yes it's not a
cheap tyre.


I ride mostly on Intense Trail Taker or Geax Saguaro. Grip is fine and
if I don't find anything else with stronger sidewalls yet reasonable
prices ($30) I will stay with these tires.

Running 55psi is tougher but a very small price to pay for never having
a flat.

I run 30psi and have yet to have a pinch flat, thorns etc don't care
what psi it's the thickness of the tyre/hardness of the puncture breaker
etc.


Hardness comes with pressure. If you run too low in pressure the thorn
sometimes makes it through, the broken off tip ambles around between
tire and liner und a few miles later it has worked its way past the
liner ... phseeee ... flat. I had several such flats when I ran liners
with 20-30psi. Went up to 50psi - no more.

sorry that makes little sence, TBH


If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.

To be honest this is the Fast, Good or Cheap triangle. cheaper simper
made tyres may have better wear rates, with harder compounds, but
equally they are likely to give a harsh ride.


I've just come to (grudgingly) accept that there isn't any tire
comparable to the Maxxis 1040N in 29" size so the ride will either be
harsh or very expensive.

that kind of is the nub of it.


If they made the Maxxis 1040N in 29" it wouldn't have to be. Beats me
why they don't because the market is substantial.

Since there are a rather select number of people after such tyres?
others are not running their tyres at 50psi etc.

plus although 29er seems in no danger of going away, it's in europe at
least out sold by 27.5 MTBer many times over.


Hardcore Competition rider I'm not but the FS MTB is a bike I use for
pleasure not utility, so the cost and wear are accemptabe for use, if I
get 500 miles F/R out of the Hans Dampf I'll be amazed!


Mine is pleasure plus utility. In our area most errand rides are 30-50
miles. Some rides simply cannot be done on a road bikes because there is
only a bush road or single track with rocky stretches. I guess this is
why 90% or bikes parked at the Intel parking lot recently were MTB.

[...]


if it is like that video you posted, then a gravel/CX would cope,
smaller rocks are fine, it's big hits that they can't take.


CX will not work there and, therefore, CX bikes are never seen there.
The rocks are big enough that they hurt in the shins when kicked up by
the front wheel.

Have to say I can't recall last time I got a rock on a shin, if the rock
is unstable unenough to be kicked up it's probably wise to ride past
rather than over it.

I ride my CX on far worse than that, CX is about the same as the MTB's
in the early 90's bit faster and lighter but just as able to rough it,
and a rocky trail is more than doable, with a modicum of skill, I rather
enjoy having to work rather harder, on stuff the Trance just devours.


People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...ile:Trte_003_l
hp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

Have you tried it? it is clearly a tech that is improving year on year.
I personally have no real reason to do so though, folks I know who have
swear by it.


I know such folks as well. Just like many are believing in expensive
tires and low pressures. This is one reason I do not like to ride in
large groups where one has to constantly stop because so-and-so got a
flat. Yesterday was a classic case, only two of us. About eight miles
into the ride ... phssssss ... needless to say, it was of course not my
MTB that got the flat.

This is nothing to do with tubeless, a lot of riders are fairly
clueless, sound of maladjusted gears etc and yes overinflated tyres
making them ping off rocks.


This rider was experienced. But did not have thick tubes, liners and not
enough pressure. So ... phssseeeeoooouuuu.

Mmm look a quick check around the net doesn't have people saying oh
Thorn heads still puncture etc, with tubeless rather that tubless with
sealent works. ie it works for others.



Goat's head thorns can quickly end a tubeless ride. It is only a matter
of time.

I'm not a fan of Tubless for my bikes, but if the Goat's head will not
make it through the the admitly thicker than normal innertube then the
sealent will seal, what they will not seal are sidewall slashes.


I've tried slime sealant for almost a year. Came away unimpressed. After
a few month that stuff oozes all over the place out here. My technique
works well. Sure, it makes for a slightly rougher and thus less pleasant
ride but I gladly accept that for the fact that I always get there on
time. Often I have to, so it's important to me not to get flats.

in a tube? yes me too and frankly it didn't work on brambles etc. But
tubeless and sealent though I personally have no reason to go there at
the moment, it can and will seal the sort of punctures your complaining
about.

Roger Merriman

On 2016-04-18 15:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-04-10 09:58, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-31 03:17, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-30 02:48, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-29 02:41, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


Can't be had in 29" and some guys who are taller just don't fell
well on a 26" bike.

not Downhill granted but plenty of Enduro 29er tyres, the tyres my MTB
has are classed as Enduro, the 29er hans-dampf ranges from 800g to 1100g
depending on the tyre construction, the super gravity is is not DH
mainly because it's got folding rather than wire bead.


I would not mind the weight one bit. But ...

http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Dampf...-2-35-Inch/dp/
B007B WRGBQ

$75 is way too much if the tire doesn't last longer than my usual
brands or about 500 miles. The tread looks similar to mine so I'd be
surprised if they had a miracle compound that would make it last
longer.

Thats lighter version and softer compound (I have this) and yes it's
expensive tyre with fairly horrific wear rates, but the perfomance ie
grip, and rock swallowing etc is amazing.

you can get it fair bit cheaper if you shop around. but yes it's not a
cheap tyre.


I ride mostly on Intense Trail Taker or Geax Saguaro. Grip is fine and
if I don't find anything else with stronger sidewalls yet reasonable
prices ($30) I will stay with these tires.

Running 55psi is tougher but a very small price to pay for never having
a flat.

I run 30psi and have yet to have a pinch flat, thorns etc don't care
what psi it's the thickness of the tyre/hardness of the puncture breaker
etc.


Hardness comes with pressure. If you run too low in pressure the thorn
sometimes makes it through, the broken off tip ambles around between
tire and liner und a few miles later it has worked its way past the
liner ... phseeee ... flat. I had several such flats when I ran liners
with 20-30psi. Went up to 50psi - no more.

sorry that makes little sence, TBH


It works. That's all I really care about.




If you are a hardcore competition rider where costs per mile do not
matter that's another story. I just want to ride, lots of miles at
reasonable expense.

To be honest this is the Fast, Good or Cheap triangle. cheaper simper
made tyres may have better wear rates, with harder compounds, but
equally they are likely to give a harsh ride.


I've just come to (grudgingly) accept that there isn't any tire
comparable to the Maxxis 1040N in 29" size so the ride will either be
harsh or very expensive.

that kind of is the nub of it.


If they made the Maxxis 1040N in 29" it wouldn't have to be. Beats me
why they don't because the market is substantial.

Since there are a rather select number of people after such tyres?
others are not running their tyres at 50psi etc.


There are many people who want them and it's got nothing to do with high
pressure. They want side walls that aren't flimsy. My next test is in
shipment, a CST Rock Hawk tire. Weighs well over 2lbs which is usually a
good sign and people on the web said they tend to last longer. We will see.


plus although 29er seems in no danger of going away, it's in europe at
least out sold by 27.5 MTBer many times over.


I wonder what's next. 28.25"? :-)




Hardcore Competition rider I'm not but the FS MTB is a bike I use for
pleasure not utility, so the cost and wear are accemptabe for use, if I
get 500 miles F/R out of the Hans Dampf I'll be amazed!


Mine is pleasure plus utility. In our area most errand rides are 30-50
miles. Some rides simply cannot be done on a road bikes because there is
only a bush road or single track with rocky stretches. I guess this is
why 90% or bikes parked at the Intel parking lot recently were MTB.

[...]


if it is like that video you posted, then a gravel/CX would cope,
smaller rocks are fine, it's big hits that they can't take.


CX will not work there and, therefore, CX bikes are never seen there.
The rocks are big enough that they hurt in the shins when kicked up by
the front wheel.

Have to say I can't recall last time I got a rock on a shin, if the rock
is unstable unenough to be kicked up it's probably wise to ride past
rather than over it.


It's on rides like in the video. You can't dodge the rocks because on
some stretches they are everywhere. Sometimes one has to keep a certain
speed so the bike "floats up" or "gets on the step". But once in a while
.... *KAINGGG* ... OUCH. Hits the shins, feet, down tube, chain rings.
The rocks are the reason why some teeth on my chain rings are partially
or completely gone.


I ride my CX on far worse than that, CX is about the same as the MTB's
in the early 90's bit faster and lighter but just as able to rough it,
and a rocky trail is more than doable, with a modicum of skill, I rather
enjoy having to work rather harder, on stuff the Trance just devours.


To me going trails like that on a CX would be like masochism :-)

Plus I've got lower back damage so that even rules out hardtails. It's
not healthy even for younger people because some functions of discs in
the back are like a gift card account, what's gone is gone.


People towards Sacramento get more miles. But they have mostly sand
trails and can ride their tire tread way more down without risking a
spectactular blowout like I had when pushing a rear tire to 600mi.


Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.


No, they are not. Tubeless loses air just like any "normal" bike. And
when cornering too brutally ... PHOOF ... WHOP ... and then you have
10psi less coming out of the curve. If you are lucky.

if you where a DH racer sure, thats why they have wired beads vs folding
etc.

But for mortals then assuming the set up doesn't drive you potty, you
shouldn't get sidewall burps unless your a DH racer, and/or running
18psi or so on.

But to be honest i'm done I suspect you just want to do it your special
way.


Well, it took me a while to find out what works. The main lesson was
tought by these little presents of nature which are found almost
everywhere around this area:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribul...ile:Trte_003_l
hp.jpg

Poeple riding tubeless or with just thin tubes and no liners try to cope
by using slime. But then they find out that some day soon their bike
sits in the garage with a flat and green goo on the floor. BTDT, does
not work.

Have you tried it? it is clearly a tech that is improving year on year.
I personally have no real reason to do so though, folks I know who have
swear by it.


I know such folks as well. Just like many are believing in expensive
tires and low pressures. This is one reason I do not like to ride in
large groups where one has to constantly stop because so-and-so got a
flat. Yesterday was a classic case, only two of us. About eight miles
into the ride ... phssssss ... needless to say, it was of course not my
MTB that got the flat.

This is nothing to do with tubeless, a lot of riders are fairly
clueless, sound of maladjusted gears etc and yes overinflated tyres
making them ping off rocks.


This rider was experienced. But did not have thick tubes, liners and not
enough pressure. So ... phssseeeeoooouuuu.

Mmm look a quick check around the net doesn't have people saying oh
Thorn heads still puncture etc, with tubeless rather that tubless with
sealent works. ie it works for others.


Not around here. And Arizona. And parts of Utah. And ...


Goat's head thorns can quickly end a tubeless ride. It is only a matter
of time.

I'm not a fan of Tubless for my bikes, but if the Goat's head will not
make it through the the admitly thicker than normal innertube then the
sealent will seal, what they will not seal are sidewall slashes.


I've tried slime sealant for almost a year. Came away unimpressed. After
a few month that stuff oozes all over the place out here. My technique
works well. Sure, it makes for a slightly rougher and thus less pleasant
ride but I gladly accept that for the fact that I always get there on
time. Often I have to, so it's important to me not to get flats.

in a tube? yes me too and frankly it didn't work on brambles etc. But
tubeless and sealent though I personally have no reason to go there at
the moment, it can and will seal the sort of punctures your complaining
about.


I have seen many riders tubeless and with tubes who experienced the
contrary. Initially it sealed alright but eventually there was so much
air loss (mostly erratic, not always at same rate) that it got old. Or
they headed into the garage all jazzed up about the fun ride they had
planned only to find a tire flat and green goo on the garage floor. I
have experienced the same with slime in tubes. Worked ok for 6-9 month,
then I threw those tubes away and never looked back.

I want to walk in there, hop on, and ride off.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/