TDF understanding

white: best of the young drives (up to 25 years) time counts here

green: best sprinter, the one who has collected most points

white with red dots: is for the best climber (will be interesting, when
the Alps and Pyrenees come up). The rider who gets most points at the
climbs will get it.
Yes, but why are they white, green, and white with red dots? Why not
purple, brown, and blue with pink stripes (for example)? There must be
some historical reason for choosing those colours.

If a driver is national champion, he must wear the national champion
trikot. If he is world champion in road racing, he must wear the world
champion trikot. If someone is world champion at time trial, he must wear
the world champion time trial jersey at a time trial, but never at a
regular road race.
Interesting. What about the riders who have the world champion "rainbow"
stripes only on their collars and the cuffs of their sleeves? What does
that mean? Are they world champions in non-road disciplines such as
track cycling or MTBing?

&roo

Andrew Swan wrote:

More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's
stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a glass or two of red (so please forgive any
typos or "thinkos"):

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

20kph is fast enough to get draughting benefit - which the average speed
of a 39 min ascent of Alpe D'Huez.

(2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind,
not dickstickers/sluggos you understand)? And the ones who do, is it
really justifiable when they have their directeur sportif (DS) yelling
in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the
runners you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their
digital watch when crossing the finishing line, not trusting the $3bn
Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely to record their
time to the nanosecond)?

I heard some riders dont race with a cycle computers, believe it your
not. Don't really need it in a race. Useful in training though.

(3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less
tactical/strategic nous than those of yesteryear, given that these days
(thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider) the DS knows
everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do
and when? What must it have been like in the old days when the peloton
could only figure out who had gone up the road in a break by counting
who was left?

There has been the debate about this over the years, the radio takes
away the necessity to think for themselves in races. Making tactical
decisions and team mates communicating with each other out on the road
used to be a part of pro racing. It still is at an amatuer level. Turn
pro and become a zombie, I don't see the sense in that either.

GK

Andrew Swan wrote:

More TDF questions that just occurred to me after watching tonight's
stage (Alpe D'Huez) and a glass or two of red (so please forgive any
typos or "thinkos"):

(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

20kph is fast enough to get draughting benefit - which the average speed
of a 39 min ascent of Alpe D'Huez.

(2) how many of the riders in the Tour use speedos (the electronic kind,
not dickstickers/sluggos you understand)? And the ones who do, is it
really justifiable when they have their directeur sportif (DS) yelling
in their earpiece all day, or is it purely out of habit (like the
runners you see in the Olympic marathon who press the button on their
digital watch when crossing the finishing line, not trusting the $3bn
Seiko/Rolex timing system that's been installed purely to record their
time to the nanosecond)?

I heard some riders dont race with a cycle computers, believe it your
not. Don't really need it in a race. Useful in training though.

(3) talking of earpiece radios, do today's riders require less
tactical/strategic nous than those of yesteryear, given that these days
(thanks to TV, radio, and two-way comms with every rider) the DS knows
everything going on in the race and can tell any team member what to do
and when? What must it have been like in the old days when the peloton
could only figure out who had gone up the road in a break by counting
who was left?

There has been the debate about this over the years, the radio takes
away the necessity to think for themselves in races. Making tactical
decisions and team mates communicating with each other out on the road
used to be a part of pro racing. It still is at an amatuer level. Turn
pro and become a zombie, I don't see the sense in that either.

GK

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez
or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
speeds and thats fast enough!!

"stu" wrote in message
u...
(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps

and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe DHuez
or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
speeds and thats fast enough!!

"stu" wrote in message
u...
(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of Lance
having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when AFAIK the
riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting is of any use?

these guys climb at 30kph+ so drafting still helps

"Shabby" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score
you a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.

D grade @ Glenvale Crescent, almost totally flat criterium course with a
long wide finish. I had maximum speeds in the low 60's for a number of
weeks until I got a win. Averages are around 37kph.

I just looked over some of my HR files and most D grade max speeds
for me were just over 50kph with averages around the low 30kph mark.
Some max speeds were over 60kph but not many.

hippy

"Shabby" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Man that is some D grade crit. 65 kmh sprint in most grades will score
you a win, sheesh, Cipo's max was approx 70 kmh at Zolder last year.

D grade @ Glenvale Crescent, almost totally flat criterium course with a
long wide finish. I had maximum speeds in the low 60's for a number of
weeks until I got a win. Averages are around 37kph.

I just looked over some of my HR files and most D grade max speeds
for me were just over 50kph with averages around the low 30kph mark.
Some max speeds were over 60kph but not many.

hippy

wrote:
(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of
Lance having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when
AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
is of any use?



It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the
front, dictating terms to the rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit
in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop others from
feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most
vunerable when they are subjected to a number of attacks one after the
other, as it takes more effort to chase down and close the gap than to
ride tempo.)

It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down
attacks, he just rode faster up the hill than his rivals (faster
average). Lance is a different style of leader though...



--
--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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On 15 Jul 2003 13:00:13 +0950, Shabby
wrote:

wrote:
(1) why do Phil and Paul (bless 'em) talk about the importance of
Lance having his postie teammates around him on the climbs, when
AFAIK the riders are not doing the kinds of speeds where drafting
is of any use?



It's also a display of the teams strength to have them visible at the
front, dictating terms to the rest of the bunch, plus there's a benefit
in having pure climbers set a tough pace which will stop others from
feeling like they're strong enough to attack. (Any leader is most
vunerable when they are subjected to a number of attacks one after the
other, as it takes more effort to chase down and close the gap than to
ride tempo.)

Your last sentence is the most relevant. The tempo is what it is all
about. The domestiques protect the leader by maintaining a tempo
which, hopefully, stops needless attacks and allows the leader to pace
himself to the tempo of his domestiques.

If you have 3 or 4 guys taking turns peddling like crazy while your
leader sits behind them, it means very few will have the ability to
just accelerate away to the win.


It's interesting to note that Indurain never actually chased down
attacks, he just rode faster up the hill than his rivals (faster
average). Lance is a different style of leader though...

Indurain = Ullrich on speed... grin

well Pantanis record up Alpe d'Huez is 37 minutes something or other
(Armstrongs is 38'01 a couple of years ago) and the climb is 14.1kms
long...so that gives an average of about 22.2 kms/hr for Armstrong and a bit
faster for Pantani.

Its steeper at the bottom of Alp d'Huez but US Postal were motoring up it if
you saw the coverage (would hate to see how fast they were going) and a lot
of riders got shelled. Maybe they were in the 30s then.

If you saw Virenque suffering he would have still been in the mid-high teens
to finish 8 minutes down on the Mayo..still a good effort!! these guys are
super human in comparison to us mere plebs.


"stu" wrote in message
u...
and which climbs would these be?? they sure don't average 30+ up Alpe
DHuez
or the Galibier

average of low-mid 20s yes..and yes drafting comes into effect at these
speeds and thats fast enough!!
l never said "Alpe DHuez" or "average". But as they average 20kph up one
of
the hardest climbs in the tour. What are there minimum and maximum speeds
up
the climb?
what was there average up the first climb of the day?