randonneur

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 3:13:19 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
wrote:

The early 1980s were a very few years after
1976. 1976 was when Adventure Cycling (they
were called something else at first)
organized the first cross country USA bike
ride. It was not the first time anyone had
ever ridden across the USA. But it was the
first nationally publicized cross country
ride with a "big" organization sponsoring,
organizing, it. They organized groups of
riders and had ride leaders for each group.
So bike companies were merely trying to
capitalize on this new market for touring
bikes. Riding a touring bike across the
country was a new thing. And you needed a new
bike to do this.

OK, so all it takes is one organization to do
something by all means cool and then the whole
industry will start producing equipment for
others to do (versions of) the same thing?

It's not quite so simple. Fashion is fickle, inscrutable and weirdly
influential. If it were easy to figure out, everyone would be controlling
fashion for their own benefit.

But yes, under some circumstances, one organization or company can generate a
trend that takes off, and people will spend insane amounts of money to take
part in that trend. Usually there's no logic in it.

Bike touring had a bit of a surge after BikeCentennial (now Adventure Cycling)
brought attention to it. I don't think it ever affected more than a tiny
portion of the population, though. In fact, I don't think it affected more than
a tiny portion of even the bike riding population.

On the other hand, there are much sillier trends that have been running
strong for many years, and making certain people tons of money. Tattoos and
bike helmets are examples.

- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 8:59:47 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I happen to have the 1984 Miyata printed catalog. The 1000 came with:
Miyata Super Touring Nylon Belted Tire. 700x32C S.S.W. 90 lbs 380g.
Araya Model 16-A3 rims. 40 holes on the rear wheel, 36 on the front.

My Miyate 610 was probably 2nd best for 1984. It's fairly similar but
with slightly cheaper components and tapered seat stays. Wheels were
both 36 hole and used 27x1-1/4 tires.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/Miyata-610.html

Odd the same company would use 700C and 27" wheels on two of their touring
bikes. Why not just pick one or the other? Unless they figured only
the professional tourers would buy the 700C because they knew about bikes
and what the rest of the world used for tires. 700C in Europe. And
the 27" was marketed to the beginner who would only tour around his house
in the USA. 27" tires for USA.

That's probably correct. The reason is "product differentiation"
which means Miyata can't sell a single product into two different
markets, at two different prices, without some way for the customer to
distinguish between them. As I recall, the 1984 price difference
between the Miyata 1000, 610, and 210 touring bikes was rather
substantial. I vaguely recall paying about $300 for the 610 in 1985.
I wanted the 1000 but couldn't justify the expense. I don't recall
the numbers. Yes, I was very much a beginner, especially to touring.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#miyata
"The mid-80s Miyata 1000 was possibly the finest
off-the-shelf touring bike available at the time."

"Miyata touring bikes, including the 1000 and the
lesser (but still extremely nice) 610, came with very
unusual tires, Panasonic radials. These may be the
only radial bicycle tires ever sold. [And for good reason:
the radial cord provided too little lateral rigidity,
making the tires feel odd. -- John Allen]"

I'm not sure where that came from as I don't recall having Panasonic
radial tires. Methinks the original tires were branded Miyata,
possibly by Matsu****a (Panasonic).
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/644642-miyata-radial-tires.html
The 1984 Miyata catalog lists all its tires for all models as Miyata.

At the time, subtleties such as 700c vs 27" hadn't entered my decision
making process. I was more interested in the paint color (Sherwood
Green), how much junk I could carry, a comfortable ride (long wheel
base), and how cool I would look riding it.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

[...] At the time, subtleties such as 700c vs
27" hadn't entered my decision making
process. I was more interested in the paint
color (Sherwood Green), how much junk I could
carry, a comfortable ride (long wheel base),
and how cool I would look riding it.

Very interesting post!

As for the color, obviously that's very
important. If you don't get happy instantly by
looking at the bike (because you don't like the
color), this sets the tone (or shade) for the
hole riding experience and possibly the whole
day depending on how perceptive/sensitive you
are.

Color are emotional which is why kids and girls
care so much for them...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 12:06:32 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 11:06:52 AM UTC-5, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

True. It would be odd for them to be the tire
it shipped with. I recall that during the
touring bike heyday of the 1980's

OK, what was it about the 80s and
randonneuring? Good bikes and roads but still
not insane traffic like today?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Stop using the word randonneuring incorrectly. You are talking about touring. Not randonneuring.

The early 1980s were a very few years after 1976. 1976 was when Adventure Cycling (they were called something else at first) organized the first cross country USA bike ride. It was not th e first time anyone had ever ridden across the USA. But it was the first nationally publicized cross country ride with a "big" organization sponsoring, organizing, it. They organized groups of riders and had ride leaders for each group. So bike companies were merely trying to capitalize on this new market for touring bikes. Riding a touring bike across the country was a new thing. And you needed a new bike to do this. A touring bike. Thus companies made the bikes people wanted to buy. Its called capitalism. Companies sell what people want to buy.

It was called Bikecentennial with its offices in Missoula Montana, which meant that all their routes went through Missoula, which is a little dopey if you look at the map of the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikecentennial But if you did the route, you could stop by the office and sign a book -- which is probably collecting dust somewhere.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 14:13:09 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
[...] At the time, subtleties such as 700c vs
27" hadn't entered my decision making
process. I was more interested in the paint
color (Sherwood Green), how much junk I could
carry, a comfortable ride (long wheel base),
and how cool I would look riding it.

Very interesting post!

It's mostly about my favorite topic, me.

As for the color, obviously that's very
important. If you don't get happy instantly by
looking at the bike (because you don't like the
color), this sets the tone (or shade) for the
hole riding experience and possibly the whole
day depending on how perceptive/sensitive you
are.

Color are emotional which is why kids and girls
care so much for them...

Adult men are equally affected by color.
"How to Use the Psychology of Colors When Marketing"
https://smallbiztrends.com/2014/06/psychology-of-colors.html
You'll find hundreds of such articles on the psychology of color on
the internet. No two will agree on how it works, some bother to
provide statistical marketing research evidence of such preferences,
few make the association with symbols (Karl Jung), and none offer a
connection to subliminals (Wilson Bryan Key).

My purchase decision of a Sherwood Green Miyata 610 did not involve
much research or thought. In 1984, Miyata offered the 610 only in
Artesian Blue and Sherwood Green. The LBS where I purchased it only
had green in stock in my frame size. The 1000 was available in
Mountain Blue and Dark Platinum. Either color would have been
acceptable, but the price of the 1000 was too high for me. The 210
was another option for touring, but none were in stock in my frame
size.

So, why the emphasis on buying from inventory? Because for me, it was
an impulse decision. I was laid off or fired from an engineering job
two years earlier and decided to become a consultant. I was putting
every penny into the business and was in desperate need of "retail
therapy" or other means of escaping the stress. After an intense
morning design review, I was recovering from a fast-food lunch when I
noticed an LBS nearby that I hadn't previously visited. Two hours of
haggling later, I left with the green 610. I had only planned to look
at price tags and bargains, but I think the green color convinced me
that it was time to buy. Note that my current vehicle is a green
Subaru Forester, I live in a green forest, and much of my clothing is
green.

So, where did my preference for green come from? When I was in
school, I made a futile attempt at acting. In one play, I was one of
Robin Hood's merry men. That brought me some trivial acclaim and some
minor attention from the girls. None of that stuck, except for the
green costume, which I eventually extended to my choice in bicycle and
automobile color.

I agree that the color of a bicycle might color your riding
experience. You don't ride a bicycle, you wear it. Unfortunately,
the industry has yet to invent a way to match one's mood with the
color of the bicycle. I had hoped that electrochromic paints (that
change color with applied voltage or frequency) would be developed for
the purpose.

What I still fail to understand is the Bianchi celeste color, which to
me looks very much like vomit. The best I can offer is that some
people prefer repulsive colors, possibly to induce race competitors
into losing their lunch. Bubble gum and vomit?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/steven-kruijswijks-celeste-and-pink-bianchi-oltre-xr2-gallery/
Hmmm... Looks like celeste has been darkened slightly and replace by a
lighter "CK16":
https://www.bianchi.com/images/800-600-Fix/0272bf28-86fb-4822-a420-d01421c0df6a



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/4/2018 11:22 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 14:13:09 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
[...] At the time, subtleties such as 700c vs
27" hadn't entered my decision making
process. I was more interested in the paint
color (Sherwood Green), how much junk I could
carry, a comfortable ride (long wheel base),
and how cool I would look riding it.

Very interesting post!

It's mostly about my favorite topic, me.

As for the color, obviously that's very
important. If you don't get happy instantly by
looking at the bike (because you don't like the
color), this sets the tone (or shade) for the
hole riding experience and possibly the whole
day depending on how perceptive/sensitive you
are.

Color are emotional which is why kids and girls
care so much for them...

Adult men are equally affected by color.
"How to Use the Psychology of Colors When Marketing"
https://smallbiztrends.com/2014/06/psychology-of-colors.html
You'll find hundreds of such articles on the psychology of color on
the internet. No two will agree on how it works, some bother to
provide statistical marketing research evidence of such preferences,
few make the association with symbols (Karl Jung), and none offer a
connection to subliminals (Wilson Bryan Key).

My purchase decision of a Sherwood Green Miyata 610 did not involve
much research or thought. In 1984, Miyata offered the 610 only in
Artesian Blue and Sherwood Green. The LBS where I purchased it only
had green in stock in my frame size. The 1000 was available in
Mountain Blue and Dark Platinum. Either color would have been
acceptable, but the price of the 1000 was too high for me. The 210
was another option for touring, but none were in stock in my frame
size.

So, why the emphasis on buying from inventory? Because for me, it was
an impulse decision. I was laid off or fired from an engineering job
two years earlier and decided to become a consultant. I was putting
every penny into the business and was in desperate need of "retail
therapy" or other means of escaping the stress. After an intense
morning design review, I was recovering from a fast-food lunch when I
noticed an LBS nearby that I hadn't previously visited. Two hours of
haggling later, I left with the green 610. I had only planned to look
at price tags and bargains, but I think the green color convinced me
that it was time to buy. Note that my current vehicle is a green
Subaru Forester, I live in a green forest, and much of my clothing is
green.

So, where did my preference for green come from? When I was in
school, I made a futile attempt at acting. In one play, I was one of
Robin Hood's merry men. That brought me some trivial acclaim and some
minor attention from the girls. None of that stuck, except for the
green costume, which I eventually extended to my choice in bicycle and
automobile color.

I agree that the color of a bicycle might color your riding
experience. You don't ride a bicycle, you wear it. Unfortunately,
the industry has yet to invent a way to match one's mood with the
color of the bicycle. I had hoped that electrochromic paints (that
change color with applied voltage or frequency) would be developed for
the purpose.

What I still fail to understand is the Bianchi celeste color, which to
me looks very much like vomit. The best I can offer is that some
people prefer repulsive colors, possibly to induce race competitors
into losing their lunch. Bubble gum and vomit?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/steven-kruijswijks-celeste-and-pink-bianchi-oltre-xr2-gallery/
Hmmm... Looks like celeste has been darkened slightly and replace by a
lighter "CK16":
https://www.bianchi.com/images/800-600-Fix/0272bf28-86fb-4822-a420-d01421c0df6a





You may have been influenced by an old movie in which a
character wields a pen with green ink. She explains, "It's
the color of money."[1]

There as many versions of Bianchi Celeste as there are/were
designers at Bianchi. Over 130+ years, that's a lot.

[1]can't recall which movie and a web search didn't help as
that seems to be a more recent movie title.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Adult men are equally affected by color.

One would think not:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/canyon-aeroad.jpg

So, where did my preference for green come
from? When I was in school, I made a futile
attempt at acting. In one play, I was one of
Robin Hood's merry men. That brought me some
trivial acclaim and some minor attention from
the girls. None of that stuck, except for the
green costume, which I eventually extended to
my choice in bicycle and automobile color.

Probably be deeper than that yet, encoded in you
and your ancestor's genetic array. I read
somewhere that of all the colors, the human eye
is the most apt at distinguishing nuances with
green. Probably because paleo-men did it all
the time, looking for food, animals, firewood
etc in the forests of different places
and seasons.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 6/4/2018 4:20 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Adult men are equally affected by color.

One would think not:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/canyon-aeroad.jpg
-snip-


I see what you mean.
Who could love that in a world full of beauty?

http://mai.saint-etienne.fr/sites/de...?itok=DrP8MIpw


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 23:20:09 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Adult men are equally affected by color.

One would think not:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/canyon-aeroad.jpg

Hopefully, you don't plan to go touring on that machine. Certainly
not at night, where it would be difficult to see. During the daytime,
the matt black frame will be rather hot. However, there is one big
advantage to black... the dirt doesn't show.

Hmmm... I wonder what keeps the bicycle upright in the photo?

Probably be deeper than that yet, encoded in you
and your ancestor's genetic array. I read
somewhere that of all the colors, the human eye
is the most apt at distinguishing nuances with
green. Probably because paleo-men did it all
the time, looking for food, animals, firewood
etc in the forests of different places
and seasons.

That's true. However, green doesn't do much for the plant. The
reason that plants are green is because they REFLECT the color green,
while they ABSORB all the other colors. Green light is totally
useless for photosynthesis. Another clue is that LED grow lights are
sorta purple:
https://www.google.com/search?q=led+grow+lights&tbm=isch
consisting of blue and red LEDs, but no green.

However, modern man does not owe his survival to his ability to see
detail in the green forest clutter. It is my understanding that we
develop most of our personal preferences, biases, and religion by
about age 7. If your favorite candy store was painted pink, you might
later in life favor a pink bicycle. While this doesn't neatly mesh
with the symbology of colors, it does predominate when selecting a
"favorite" color.

Which bicycle is faster? Red or green?
Which bicycle is heavier? Black or white?
Which bicycle is more expensive? Gold or rust colored?

Why Your Bike's Paint Matters More Than You Think.
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a20025126/why-your-bikes-paint-matters-more-than-you-think/
"Giro Sport Design's Dain Zaffke makes the case that
the most important consideration when buying a new
bike is its color"


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/3/2018 9:06 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote:

True. It would be odd for them to be the tire
it shipped with. I recall that during the
touring bike heyday of the 1980's

OK, what was it about the 80s and
randonneuring? Good bikes and roads but still
not insane traffic like today?

For some reason, bicycle touring was extremely popular then. I think
that it grew out of Bikecentennial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikecentennial.

The Hosteling movement was also at its peak so it was easy to find cheap
places to stay. Now, at least in the U.S., the number of hostels has
been drastically reduced, and the remaining ones are often not much of a
bargain, even though I prefer them if they have private rooms. We stayed
at a hostel in San Diego a couple of months ago, and I stayed in one by
myself near Yosemite last month.