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internal wrenching bolt



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 21st 19, 10:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,882
Default internal wrenching bolt

This is a USAF spec internal wrenching bolt:
https://www.skygeek.com/military-sta...rilled-hd.html

Here's a DIN912 cap screw:
https://4.imimg.com/data4/SG/TV/MY-2...ws-500x500.jpg

or smooth side version:
https://img.accu.co.uk/products/SSCF-A2_lg.jpg

Tom has a point in that most linear ("V") brake anchors do
not have cylindrical heads and actually do look more like an
'internal wrenching bolt':

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/9e1...0&odnBg=FFFFFF

p.s.
A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An... 34&tmode=0000


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old August 21st 19, 10:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,298
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
This is a USAF spec internal wrenching bolt:
https://www.skygeek.com/military-sta...rilled-hd.html

Here's a DIN912 cap screw:
https://4.imimg.com/data4/SG/TV/MY-2...ws-500x500.jpg

or smooth side version:
https://img.accu.co.uk/products/SSCF-A2_lg.jpg

Tom has a point in that most linear ("V") brake anchors do
not have cylindrical heads and actually do look more like an
'internal wrenching bolt':

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/9e1...0&odnBg=FFFFFF

p.s.
A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An... 34&tmode=0000


BTW, that internal wrenching bolt profile is used for Hollowtech pinch bolts. https://images.amain.com/images/larg....jpg?width=475 It leaves little material near the top, and if the wrench is not seated, it is easy to wallow out the fitting. A standard M6 hex cap screw gives you more material to support the wrench, but its a tight fit in the arm.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old August 21st 19, 11:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 3,139
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:13:33 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An...rake/207280508


If that's the bolt in question, it's called a "button head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=button+head+bolt
The shape of the head varies from a half sphere, as in the Tektro
bolt, to the flatter version in most of the above photos, and
everything in between.

The Tekro head is a "taper cone head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=taper+cone+head+bolt
Notice that most of the "taper cone head" bolts are titanium which is
used because it gives about the same strength as a "socket head cap
screw" but uses less titanium:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=socket+head+cap+screw
The taper cone head shape is also easier to form from wire in a cold
heading machine.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #4  
Old August 22nd 19, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,037
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
This is a USAF spec internal wrenching bolt:
https://www.skygeek.com/military-sta...rilled-hd.html

Here's a DIN912 cap screw:
https://4.imimg.com/data4/SG/TV/MY-2...ws-500x500.jpg

or smooth side version:
https://img.accu.co.uk/products/SSCF-A2_lg.jpg

Tom has a point in that most linear ("V") brake anchors do
not have cylindrical heads and actually do look more like an
'internal wrenching bolt':

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/9e1...0&odnBg=FFFFFF

p.s.
A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An... 34&tmode=0000


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


https://www.target.com/p/campagnolo-...wNFg&gclsrc=ds

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Cla...3ef26f3516cfe5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Shimano...AOSwpRRWmRt Z

Here is the same shape used as a nut. This makes the design of the lengths very complicated though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Shimano...AOSw4O9beMP P

It took several years for them to apply this and as I said, it has a strict engineering use. It spreads the pressure on the washer under it that is used to lock the cables.

I was in the Ace Hardware looking for some metric bolts and came across the entire size and length variations in a series of bins.
  #5  
Old August 22nd 19, 12:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,037
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 3:34:43 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:13:33 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An...rake/207280508


If that's the bolt in question, it's called a "button head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=button+head+bolt
The shape of the head varies from a half sphere, as in the Tektro
bolt, to the flatter version in most of the above photos, and
everything in between.

The Tekro head is a "taper cone head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=taper+cone+head+bolt
Notice that most of the "taper cone head" bolts are titanium which is
used because it gives about the same strength as a "socket head cap
screw" but uses less titanium:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=socket+head+cap+screw
The taper cone head shape is also easier to form from wire in a cold
heading machine.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I think that "tapered cone head" is by far a better designation for it. I had never seen anything other than what I previously wrote.

While we're on this sort of subject, I was trying to respoke the set of tubeless wheels I have with shorter spokes. But I could not get it to start and then discovered that they are using Quad Drive Spoke Nipples (https://www..bing.com/images/search?...vt=0&eim=1,2,6)

I assume that you use a long handled nut driver that is designed for this work even though it pretty obviously was designed this way so that you could assemble a wheel using full circle torqueing apparatus.

Are you aware of any tool like this being available?
  #6  
Old August 22nd 19, 12:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,800
Default internal wrenching bolt

On 8/21/2019 7:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Shimano...AOSw4O9beMP P

It took several years for them to apply this and as I said, it has a strict engineering use. It spreads the pressure on the washer under it that is used to lock the cables.


"Spreads the pressure" how, exactly? Compared to a normal hex head cap
screw with a washer, are you claiming more pressure at the outer edge of
the washer, or more pressure at the inner edge? I'm trying to visualize
what you're imagining.


I was in the Ace Hardware looking for some metric bolts and came across the entire size and length variations in a series of bins.


How were they labeled? "Internal wrenching bolts"?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #7  
Old August 22nd 19, 12:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,882
Default internal wrenching bolt

On 8/21/2019 6:15 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 3:34:43 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:13:33 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

A metric DIN #912 cap screw is usually under a dollar. Not
so with Actual Bicycle Parts!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tektro-An...rake/207280508


If that's the bolt in question, it's called a "button head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=button+head+bolt
The shape of the head varies from a half sphere, as in the Tektro
bolt, to the flatter version in most of the above photos, and
everything in between.

The Tekro head is a "taper cone head" bolt:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=taper+cone+head+bolt
Notice that most of the "taper cone head" bolts are titanium which is
used because it gives about the same strength as a "socket head cap
screw" but uses less titanium:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=socket+head+cap+screw
The taper cone head shape is also easier to form from wire in a cold
heading machine.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I think that "tapered cone head" is by far a better designation for it. I had never seen anything other than what I previously wrote.

While we're on this sort of subject, I was trying to respoke the set of tubeless wheels I have with shorter spokes. But I could not get it to start and then discovered that they are using Quad Drive Spoke Nipples (https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...vt=0&eim=1,2,6)

I assume that you use a long handled nut driver that is designed for this work even though it pretty obviously was designed this way so that you could assemble a wheel using full circle torqueing apparatus.

Are you aware of any tool like this being available?


They're everywhe
http://www.all-spec.com/UserFiles/Im...M_DV_WebXL.jpg

We have several sizes plus a few screwdriver allens to which
we've silvered a socket, turned down on the lathe, for the
unusual sizes we needed ASAP.

Secret insider tip:
You get a spoke wrench in the carton when you buy many
models of Campagnolo wheels:

http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/p/77912/Ca...-Head-UT-HU060

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old August 22nd 19, 01:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 3,139
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

I think that "tapered cone head" is by far a better designation
for it. I had never seen anything other than what I previously wrote.


Not to be confused with this type of cone head:
https://www.google.com/search?q=cone+head&tbm=isch

While we're on this sort of subject, I was trying to respoke the
set of tubeless wheels I have with shorter spokes. But I could
not get it to start and then discovered that they are using Quad
Drive Spoke Nipples

(https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...vt=0&eim=1,2,6)

I assume that you use a long handled nut driver that is designed
for this work even though it pretty obviously was designed this
way so that you could assemble a wheel using full circle torqueing
apparatus.

Are you aware of any tool like this being available?


I have no idea how these are used either by hand in a wheel building
machine. It might be helpful if you would disclose what you're trying
to accomplish with this tool, or at least how the tool is intended to
be used.

I found some hand tools:
https://www.parktool.com/product/nipple-driver-nd-1
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/14497/checking-spoke-tension-without-specialized-tools
which are used for building wheels without the tire and tube
installed. Something like this nightmare machine:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/94/8f/b1948f5d7c69201d6cd493ecf5f7f17d.jpg

I think (not sure) that what want is for a tool for adjusting the
spoke tension after the rim tape, tire, and tube have been installed
on the wheel. The square end is the same for commodity nipples and
quad drive spoke nipples, so the same hand tools should work for both
types of nipples.

However, you seem to want something similar to a common plastic handle
nut driver. I don't know if such a thing exists, but you could make
one yourself. Start with about a 100mm length of square mild steel
rod. Mill a lengthwise slot down the rod that clears the thickness of
the spoke. I don't think this will work too well with aero spokes.
Enlarge the width of the slot around the nipple end to fit the square
part of the nipple. It should fit nicely around the spoke and nipple.
To adjust, grab the rod with a wrench and turn. If you want to go 306
degrees, a box wrench to fit the rod, with a slot to fit the spoke,
and a wrench length to clear the other spokes and hub. Maybe some
short radial arms permanently attached (welded?) to the square rod for
adjusting the spoke tension.

The problem is attaching a handle. It can be done by first slotting
some kind of universal joint in the same manner as the square rod. If
you're using the tool for spoke tension adjustment, you'll need to
make a universal joint with very little backlash (slop). Maybe a
vinyl tube with a slot instead of a universal might be easier.





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #9  
Old August 22nd 19, 06:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,043
Default internal wrenching bolt

AMuzi wrote:

Tom has a point in that most linear ("V") brake anchors do

not
have cylindrical heads and actually do look more like an

'internal
wrenching bolt':


Tom misses the substantially more important point that you won't find an "internal wrenching bolt" with metric threading, and that functionally the thing that fixes a V-brake's cable is a metric socket head cap screw. Just as a brake pivot bolt is usually a button head socket cap screw whether its head is domed or conical.
  #10  
Old August 22nd 19, 06:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,623
Default internal wrenching bolt

On Thursday, 22 August 2019 13:21:26 UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Tom has a point in that most linear ("V") brake anchors do

not
have cylindrical heads and actually do look more like an

'internal
wrenching bolt':


Tom misses the substantially more important point that you won't find an "internal wrenching bolt" with metric threading, and that functionally the thing that fixes a V-brake's cable is a metric socket head cap screw. Just as a brake pivot bolt is usually a button head socket cap screw whether its head is domed or conical.


All the drawings I've seen of V-brakes simply call the thing a cable anchor bolt. If AK went into a bike shop and asked for a V-brake cable anchor bolt He very likely be asked what kind of bolt head. However, a hex-head bolt usually will fit even if the original bolt was X head.

Cheers
 




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