Ebikes on performance rides?

Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:54:51 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

We can often be found at a pub with a Guinness after the ride though.

From a bottle?

Andre Jute
I've been thrown out of better clubs than this -- Groucho Marx


Does it come in a bottle? Nah, there are a few Irish pubs around here with
decent taps.

On 21/10/2019 6:29 a.m., Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:54:51 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

We can often be found at a pub with a Guinness after the ride though.

From a bottle?

Andre Jute
I've been thrown out of better clubs than this -- Groucho Marx


Does it come in a bottle? Nah, there are a few Irish pubs around here with
decent taps.


Forgot the smiley face after the question mark. I know it comes in
bottles but Guinness needs to come from a tap.

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 2:18:26 PM UTC+1, duane wrote:
On 21/10/2019 6:29 a.m., Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:54:51 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

We can often be found at a pub with a Guinness after the ride though.

From a bottle?

Andre Jute
I've been thrown out of better clubs than this -- Groucho Marx


Does it come in a bottle? Nah, there are a few Irish pubs around here with
decent taps.

That's enough to Quebec on the map, already. -- And other quips Groucho never made.

Forgot the smiley face after the question mark. I know it comes in
bottles but Guinness needs to come from a tap.

I can't see smileys anyway, but I got the joke. A good writer doesn't need emoticons.

Andre Jute
Smilies, what are they?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman



We are having the same discussion in my club. I was in agreement with you
at first but now I’m less sure. If we are talking about experienced riders
that are just aging I think that’s fine. These are friends that I want to
keep riding with. I think Lou posted something similar.

But sure, for the social groups I don’t really see an issue.

Duane wrote:
Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman



We are having the same discussion in my club. I was in agreement with you
at first but now I’m less sure. If we are talking about experienced riders
that are just aging I think that’s fine. These are friends that I want to
keep riding with. I think Lou posted something similar.

But sure, for the social groups I don’t really see an issue.




The only ones I’d see as not really viable would be the A or essentially
the folks training for racing, that doesn’t seem likely to work.

All others probably could though possibly depends on how along the strava
segment / just here for the cake they are.

As aside I’m fairly surprised that E-road bikes have taken off, for MTB
they make sense for trail centres and climbing very steep technical climbs,
for road bikes I’m less convinced.

But as ever time will tell!

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 12:50:46 AM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
Duane wrote:
Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman



We are having the same discussion in my club. I was in agreement with you
at first but now I’m less sure. If we are talking about experienced riders
that are just aging I think that’s fine. These are friends that I want to
keep riding with. I think Lou posted something similar.

But sure, for the social groups I don’t really see an issue.




The only ones I’d see as not really viable would be the A or essentially
the folks training for racing, that doesn’t seem likely to work.

I don't see this happen. It would be realy strange showing up with an Ebike at a performance race.


All others probably could though possibly depends on how along the strava
segment / just here for the cake they are.

Well all the Strava segment thing is already susceptible to fraud. I don't lose any sleep over it. I only race Strava segments against myself as a training motivation. I asked Strava why I can't reset my segment times at the start of every season. What is the point racing against your segment best time when this was achieved when you were 5 years younger/had a 50 km/hr tailwind or whatever.


As aside I’m fairly surprised that E-road bikes have taken off, for MTB
they make sense for trail centres and climbing very steep technical climbs,
for road bikes I’m less convinced.

I think it is similar to a tandem. Your wife/riding partner can keep up with you and doesn't have to look at your ass all the time ;-)



But as ever time will tell!

It will come and that is a reassuring thought for all of us.

Lou

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 2:30:59 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

You have idiots everywhere and on every vehicle.


Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

On this side of the pond no one turnes up at a performance ride with an Ebike. Most clubes have a A group, B group and a gentlemens group. If some stranger rides along with an A group with an Ebike he will soon be ending up in a ditch after some 'subtle' warnings. But here this is just a theoretical problem.

Lou

On Tuesday, 29 October 2019 09:30:59 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

That's exactly the problem I see with E-bikes on the trails near here. The E-bike riders are traveling at a HIGH rate of speed and seem to have no regard for anyone else on the trail or who might be on the trail around a blind corner. Given that many E-bike riders don't seem to have much in the way of emergency (or normal) handling skills, I wonder how long it'll be until someone is seriously injured by an E-bike on one of our trails.

From what I see it appears that most E-bike riders are looking for the fastest machine they can get and ride it as fast as they can.

Cheers