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Schwalbe Technical Information
http://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/tech_info/ Stumbled across this again, so I post it for posterity. Quite useful I feel. |
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#2
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Schwalbe Technical Information
Tosspot wrote:
http://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/tech_info/ Stumbled across this again, so I post it for posterity. Quite useful I feel. on the subject of tire tread and slicks: "Even in wet conditions, on a normal, smooth road, a slick tire actually provides better grip than a tire with a tread, because the contact area is larger. The situation is much different on a rough road and even worse on a dirt trail as in these cases the degree of control provided by a slick tire is extremely limited. A slightly serrated surface on the tire tread can have a positive effect on tire grip, as it creates micro interlocking with rough asphalt." should someone tell jobst? |
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Schwalbe Technical Information
jim really
that's what Jobst siad, no? say, where's the spokes ? new approach? |
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Schwalbe Technical Information
jim beam wrote:
Tosspot wrote: http://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/tech_info/ Stumbled across this again, so I post it for posterity. Quite useful I feel. on the subject of tire tread and slicks: "Even in wet conditions, on a normal, smooth road, a slick tire actually provides better grip than a tire with a tread, because the contact area is larger. this is true though normally slicks are rather narrow tires, while treaded are fair bit wider, so have a bigger contact area. The situation is much different on a rough road and even worse on a dirt trail as in these cases the degree of control provided by a slick tire is extremely limited. in pratice it's more complicated considering that the normal slippery stuff in uk is mud and most tires tread will clog fairly quicly at which point your back to square one, mud tire are a differnt kettle of fish. A slightly serrated surface on the tire tread can have a positive effect on tire grip, as it creates micro interlocking with rough asphalt." certinaly a lot of road tires have a such a tread i guess shows any wear... should someone tell jobst? roger -- www.rogermerriman.com |
#5
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Schwalbe Technical Information
datakoll wrote:
jim really that's what Jobst siad, no? no, he disavowed any tread on tires when he "invented" the slick. but here we have a manufacturer who states the reasons why tread is actually used. i guess no dirt ever finds its way onto the glass-smooth roads of palo alto. say, where's the spokes ? new approach? |
#6
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Schwalbe Technical Information
jim beam wrote:
datakoll wrote: jim really that's what Jobst siad, no? no, he disavowed any tread on tires when he "invented" the slick. but here we have a manufacturer who states the reasons why tread is actually used. i guess no dirt ever finds its way onto the glass-smooth roads of palo alto. On a somewhat related note, I have recently switched to a new kind of tire on my mountain bike (which I usually ride on city streets). I had been using Avocet FasGrip City 26x1.9" tires on 45mm wide rims. They were free-rolling, with a surprisingly taut ride quality at only 40 to 45 psi-- which I attribute to the tire cross-sectional shape caused by the very wide rims. In any case, the Avocet tires emitted a lot of fuss in hard turns, squeaking and scrubbing and making a good deal of noise as they sought out traction on the sides of the tread. Pretty much all my slicks and semi-slicks do this to one degree or another, but these tires were noisier and more conspicuous about hunting for purchase in turns. I assumed it was because of their shortened contact patches compared to my other bikes' tires, which are mostly fat to very fat 700c models, and because of the long wheelbase and commensurately high typical lean angle of my custom MTB. Before the Avocet slicks, I used 26x2.35" Schwalbe Big Apples, which were comparatively cushier but not all that much grippier. I switched tires because after many years of wishing for such a thing, I finally found a true street slick in 26x3.0" size: http://www.choppersus.com/store/prod...3-Kenda-Kraze/ These tires measure an actual 2.7" or so mounted on the same 45mm wide rims. They have pronounced shoulders, like sporting motorcycle tires or early production Tioga City Slicker MTB tires. Their sidewalls are supple (considering) but their tread rubber is thick. I have run them at pressures ranging from 16 to 32 psi, seeing no reason to use higher pressure in tires so large. The big Kenda tires are noticeably slower than the Avocet slicks, which is what I expected given their pressure and tread thickness. What I did not expect was the solid, silent, imperturbable grip that the big tires offer in hard turns. They just grab the pavement quietly and betray no signs of letting go. It's a very different subjective sensation than that offered by any kind of knobbies or siped tires as well as any slick tires I have tried recently. Certainly the infrequent sipes in Kenda Kraze tires are nothing more than aesthetic features in a bicycle application; I can't imagine that they contribute to hard-surface grip in any noticeable way. The rest of the tread surface is smooth and devoid of textural features. Even so, the grip is like nothing else I have ever ridden. No amount of grooving, file tread, or block tread elements could improve meaningfully upon the traction these tires afford on dry pavement. I've tried just about every kind of tread pattern ever offered for city bike tires: ribbed, siped, herringbone, inverse, broad blocks, chevron, brick, knurled, slick, you name it. Nothing else I have tried approaches this level of grip. I'm very impressed. Chalo |
#7
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Schwalbe Technical Information
Chalo writtificated
I have run them at pressures ranging from 16 to 32 psi What I did not expect was the solid, silent, imperturbable grip Wheely wide tyre at a wheely low pressure = more grip than a ghecko on superglue |
#8
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Schwalbe Technical Information
Chalo wrote:
jim beam wrote: datakoll wrote: jim really that's what Jobst siad, no? no, he disavowed any tread on tires when he "invented" the slick. but here we have a manufacturer who states the reasons why tread is actually used. i guess no dirt ever finds its way onto the glass-smooth roads of palo alto. On a somewhat related note, I have recently switched to a new kind of tire on my mountain bike (which I usually ride on city streets). I had been using Avocet FasGrip City 26x1.9" tires on 45mm wide rims. They were free-rolling, with a surprisingly taut ride quality at only 40 to 45 psi-- which I attribute to the tire cross-sectional shape caused by the very wide rims. In any case, the Avocet tires emitted a lot of fuss in hard turns, squeaking and scrubbing and making a good deal of noise as they sought out traction on the sides of the tread. Pretty much all my slicks and semi-slicks do this to one degree or another, but these tires were noisier and more conspicuous about hunting for purchase in turns. I assumed it was because of their shortened contact patches compared to my other bikes' tires, which are mostly fat to very fat 700c models, and because of the long wheelbase and commensurately high typical lean angle of my custom MTB. Before the Avocet slicks, I used 26x2.35" Schwalbe Big Apples, which were comparatively cushier but not all that much grippier. I switched tires because after many years of wishing for such a thing, I finally found a true street slick in 26x3.0" size: http://www.choppersus.com/store/prod...3-Kenda-Kraze/ These tires measure an actual 2.7" or so mounted on the same 45mm wide rims. They have pronounced shoulders, like sporting motorcycle tires or early production Tioga City Slicker MTB tires. Their sidewalls are supple (considering) but their tread rubber is thick. I have run them at pressures ranging from 16 to 32 psi, seeing no reason to use higher pressure in tires so large. The big Kenda tires are noticeably slower than the Avocet slicks, which is what I expected given their pressure and tread thickness. What I did not expect was the solid, silent, imperturbable grip that the big tires offer in hard turns. They just grab the pavement quietly and betray no signs of letting go. It's a very different subjective sensation than that offered by any kind of knobbies or siped tires as well as any slick tires I have tried recently. Certainly the infrequent sipes in Kenda Kraze tires are nothing more than aesthetic features in a bicycle application; I can't imagine that they contribute to hard-surface grip in any noticeable way. The rest of the tread surface is smooth and devoid of textural features. Even so, the grip is like nothing else I have ever ridden. great! No amount of grooving, file tread, or block tread elements could improve meaningfully upon the traction these tires afford on dry pavement. that's presumption - you haven't tested that. I've tried just about every kind of tread pattern ever offered for city bike tires: ribbed, siped, herringbone, inverse, broad blocks, chevron, brick, knurled, slick, you name it. but the tread pattern is not the only variable - these are not "controlled tests". Nothing else I have tried approaches this level of grip. I'm very impressed. Chalo but on a clean dry road, you'd expect tread block distortion to have a negative impact on traction wouldn't you? that's why slicks are used on cars for racing, and car "performance" tires have bigger stiffer edge blocks. but when it comes to real world conditions, where grit, and mud wash onto roads, tread becomes much more important. hence we have treaded tires! |
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