IRD Freewheels : Worth 3x the cost ??

On Apr 15, 4:05 pm, Adam Kadlubek wrote:
On 15 Kwi, wrote:

So you suggest that you can actually _do something_ (besides indulge
your pickiness) with 10-speed that you can't do with 7-speed? Because
that's what I was addressing. Wider range does more things-- for any
rider-- but more sprockets in the same range do the same things.

I am a die-hard fan of corn-knob type cassettes. They allow me to
manage my cadence much more precisely, especially during the high-
speed riding.

But what does "managing" your cadence that way really get you besides
another task to stay on top of?

I could say that my coaster braked road bike allows me a free hand to
"manage" the contents of my nose. But that doesn't really expand my
riding envelope in a meaningful way.

I'd guess that if your were pressed to quantify the benefit of ten
sprockets over seven, you would not be able to demonstrate a
significant difference.

7speed cassettes force me to use triple front. 10 Speeds
allow to carry some extra sprockets to switch triple to double.

Why do so many time trial bikes go with just a single front ring?

Chalo

Hmm. Too bad Merckx didn't have a ten-speed cassette hub instead of
a lousy five-speed freewheel; it sounds he could have been a contender
for the world land speed record instead of Le Tour.

If the question is: "Would Eddy Merckx have ridden faster if he'd had better
equipment?" the answer is, with qualification, yes. If everyone else also
had the better equipment, he definitely would have ridden faster. If
everyone else didn't, then he'd possibly have ridden fast enough to beat
everyone else, but possibly not much faster than that (and thus no faster
than he would have with the equipment he used).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Chalo" wrote in message
...
Sandy wrote:

Chalo a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

So you suggest that you can actually _do something_ (besides indulge
your pickiness) with 10-speed that you can't do with 7-speed?

Go faster, more comfortably, with less stress over longer distances.

Hmm. Too bad Merckx didn't have a ten-speed cassette hub instead of
a lousy five-speed freewheel; it sounds he could have been a contender
for the world land speed record instead of Le Tour.

Chalo

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
I do not recall ever seeing a broken cassette hub axle, aside from one
that
someone rode so loose that it became worn through.

I've broken at least two Shimano cassette hub axles in the last ten years.
I
weigh about 180 lbs, and my bike and gear another 45 lbs. It doesn't
happen often
enough to be a major inconvenience, though.

I can't believe in all your years in the business you've only seen one
example.

Bill: Believe it, it's true. Were your broken axles on recumbents?

Yes, so my case may be unusual. I've broken axles on my upright bikes, but they
use freewheel hubs.

As I recall the axles broke at the edge of the thin end of the cone on the drive
side. I would sometimes not be aware that anything was amiss except for poor
engagement of one or two rear sprockets. After quickly checking to make sure the
cassette lock ring hadn't come loose I usually didn't investigate further until I
got home. When I unclamped the QR to remove the wheel, the works would come apart
in my hand, the wheel having been held together solely by the QR skewer.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...

13-23 nine-speed cassette. Two 2-tooth jumps.
It makes me very, very happy.

Like I said, individuals prefer different things!

But one problem with having such a closely-spaced cassette. You can claim
that you wish you had that perfect gear when you're out there suffering on a
climb, trying to keep up, and that the lack of it is what's holding you
back. But with your cassette, that's a tough claim to prove!

You know the answer to this.































































Third chain wheel.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

On Apr 15, 4:05 pm, Adam Kadlubek wrote:
On 15 Kwi, wrote:

So you suggest that you can actually _do something_ (besides indulge
your pickiness) with 10-speed that you can't do with 7-speed? Because
that's what I was addressing. Wider range does more things-- for any
rider-- but more sprockets in the same range do the same things.

I am a die-hard fan of corn-knob type cassettes. They allow me to
manage my cadence much more precisely, especially during the high-
speed riding.

But what does "managing" your cadence that way really get you besides
another task to stay on top of?

I could say that my coaster braked road bike allows me a free hand to
"manage" the contents of my nose. But that doesn't really expand my
riding envelope in a meaningful way.

I'd guess that if your were pressed to quantify the benefit of ten
sprockets over seven, you would not be able to demonstrate a
significant difference.

7speed cassettes force me to use triple front. 10 Speeds
allow to carry some extra sprockets to switch triple to double.

Why do so many time trial bikes go with just a single front ring?

Near constant speed on the flats. Those time trial bicycles have
nine or ten gear closely spaced cassettes.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Why do so many time trial bikes go with just a single front ring?

Near constant speed on the flats. Those time trialbicycleshave
nine or ten gear closely spaced cassettes.

Or seven. Many disc wheels are freewheel-only.

Chalo

In article ,
Bill Bushnell wrote:

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
I do not recall ever seeing a broken cassette hub axle, aside from one
that
someone rode so loose that it became worn through.

I've broken at least two Shimano cassette hub axles in the last ten
years.
I
weigh about 180 lbs, and my bike and gear another 45 lbs. It doesn't
happen often
enough to be a major inconvenience, though.

I can't believe in all your years in the business you've only seen one
example.

Bill: Believe it, it's true. Were your broken axles on recumbents?

Yes, so my case may be unusual.

Duuuuude!

To put it less concisely, I agree with your suspicion that you are an
unusual case.

Both you and Chalo have valid concerns about such equipment for your
needs. But that is far from saying that the design does not suit the
vast majority of its intended uses.

Being more blunt, Shimano, despite what its detractors might suggest or
suppose, has spent years and cash developing equipment that is designed
for rougher treatment and higher loads than its road groups can stand.

May I direct you to the XT/Saint/Hone lines of products? Saint and Hone
especially are burly-ized in various ways that would happen to suit
extra-heavy loads.

I respect that both you and Chalo have particular needs which are not
met by standard roadie kit, but Chalo--and now you--have demonstrated a
certain tendency to suggest that failure under his hands represents a
defect which other riders need to concern themselves with, and this is
not always true.

Both of you put stresses on equipment through your use which are out on
the long tails of the bell curve.

This is rather like me complaining that derailer drivetrains are not
sufficiently mud-resistant for normal riders, as I often experience
issues with mud contamination of my drivetrain.

(My hobby of unsupported cyclocross-type riding in a rainforest may have
something to do with that).

As I recall the axles broke at the edge of the thin end of the cone on the
drive
side. I would sometimes not be aware that anything was amiss except for poor
engagement of one or two rear sprockets. After quickly checking to make sure
the
cassette lock ring hadn't come loose I usually didn't investigate further
until I
got home. When I unclamped the QR to remove the wheel, the works would come
apart
in my hand, the wheel having been held together solely by the QR skewer.

This is the failure mode I recently experienced with an axle on my
(5-speed freewheel hub) road bike.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I respect that both you and Chalo have particular needs which are not
met by standard roadie kit, but Chalo--and now you--have demonstrated a
certain tendency to suggest that failure under his hands represents a
defect which other riders need to concern themselves with, and this is
not always true.

I don't expect that most riders have to be concerned about the
robustness of cassette hubs. I simply assert that cassettes are
significantly less robust than freewheels, and that cassette hub
design improves only upon the lousy Shimano/Campagnolo threaded-axle
hub design and does not improve upon designs such as those offered by
Phil Wood, Hi-E, Mavic, White Industries, etc. since time
immemorial.

To this I'll add that cassette hubs and sprockets don't do anything
better than appropriately designed freewheel hubs, but they do cost a
whole lot more (like for like) and they are much less
interchangeable.

Chalo

"Chalo" wrote in message
...
| Ryan Cousineau wrote:
|
| I respect that both you and Chalo have particular needs which are not
| met by standard roadie kit, but Chalo--and now you--have demonstrated a
| certain tendency to suggest that failure under his hands represents a
| defect which other riders need to concern themselves with, and this is
| not always true.
|
| I don't expect that most riders have to be concerned about the
| robustness of cassette hubs. I simply assert that cassettes are
| significantly less robust than freewheels, and that cassette hub
| design improves only upon the lousy Shimano/Campagnolo threaded-axle
| hub design and does not improve upon designs such as those offered by
| Phil Wood, Hi-E, Mavic, White Industries, etc. since time
| immemorial.
|
| To this I'll add that cassette hubs and sprockets don't do anything
| better than appropriately designed freewheel hubs, but they do cost a
| whole lot more (like for like) and they are much less
| interchangeable.
|
| Chalo

#1: Non-cassette reasonably-priced hubs break axles frequently. So
frequently that they're simply impractical for most people who ride a bike a
lot. Broken rear axles are the biggest issue we have with less-expensive
bikes. They're spec'd with such hubs to save a few dollars, which generally
works if the assumption that the bike isn't going to be ridden much holds
true.

#2: The typical, reasonable-quality cassette hub+ cassette (cogs) isn't
going to cost much more than a non-cassette hub+ freewheel.

#3: Once you start talking Phil Wood, Hi-E, Mavic or White Industries,
you've left 97.358% of the world behind, in terms of affordability. I would
suggest that manufacturing product that works for the less-than-3% of the
market doesn't have as much effect on the world and making something that
creates a better $400 bike.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:07:22 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

I can do fine with a 12-27 (34/50) up front. Low enough gear for the hills I
ride, and not so widely spaced that I feel like it's worth changing out for
a flat century.

That's my favorite combination as well. I don't see why people buy
the Shimano 12/25. The 21,23,25 vs 21,24,27 will be noticed by very
few. I do have a smooth shifting 52/34 on one bike with the 12/27.
That's really wonderful.