Just an FYI....Atlanta Police stalk Critical Mass

wrote:

The "roadies" I ride with have commented repeatedly in recent years
about the increased civility they're encountering "out there" in
Austin. Lance effect? Who knows? Courtesy inspires courtesy. Meaning,
for one thing, we don't have problems as you imply are common with CM
rides and riders because we don't act like CM riders. That's what I
think is the stupidest thing about CM, as far as what I've seen of it,
and there I go again: breaking traffic laws especially in groups is
the #1 bitch that MV operators especially, and anyone else who wants
to bitch, uses against cyclists, and CM takes that up another level by
deliberately blocking traffic-- or, the riders could have stopped for
the stoplight or stop sign and regrouped after allowing MV traffic to
proceed about their lawful business.

Cyclists get bullied so frequently by motorists that it's only natural
to want to get even. I don't particularly care for bullying in any
context, so I haven't participated in a CM ride.

the traffic laws and traffic controls, I'm sure that virtually all
of them were mandated for the safety and convenience of MV traffic. When
cycling, I feel no particular need to pretend I'm a car. The whole "same
rules, same rights" thing makes no sense to me. Given the physics of the
situation, I want more rights and fewer rules. Since (at least here in
Boston) cyclist have some greater rights, and the penalties for breaking
the rules are much lower (and usually not rigorously enforced), I don't
think it's worth making a big deal about it.

dustoyevsky wrote:

The "roadies" I ride with have commented repeatedly in recent years
about the increased civility they're encountering "out there" in
Austin. Lance effect? Who knows? Courtesy inspires courtesy.

Courtesy? The lycra clowns I see never even make eye contact let
alone return a wave. They can't possibly be as oblivious as they
seem, or they'd get killed daily.

I have observed a pronounced improvement in motorist behavior during
my almost two years back in Austin. It coincided with moving to the
East Side. Out in suburban South Austin where my sister lives, they
seem pretty much as bad as ever. (Though even there, I don't get
randomly screamed at on a regular basis like I did years ago.)

It's out in the stupid 'burbs-- where stupid folks have driven too-big
cars to too-big houses over too much distance all along-- that
circumstances are propelling folks into self-inflicted poverty.
They'll be driving less, but hating more. Unless they become smarter
all of a sudden, it's foreseeable that cyclists will
disproportionately inherit their hostility and frustration.

There may be a recent overall softening of motorist attitudes towards
cyclists, but I wouldn't know. I no longer ride at quasi-motoring
speeds, and I no longer recover from injury as quickly as I used to.
So I stay off of the major thoroughfares I used to ride upon, and I
usually stop and wait where I cross one-- not because there is a stop
sign, but just because I don't want to become the latest hit-and-run
fatality. I used to plan my routes for directness and speed; now I
plan them for minimum car traffic. I gave up on my right to
convenient routes.

CM isn't "showing motorists (and others) the fun of riding bicycles"
or anything resembling the propaganda I've seen from Austin CM.

I've never been to a Mass in Austin; I only attended a scant few while
I lived in Seattle. The ones I rode in were fun when attendance was
high enough to make a scene. Many of the motorists whose paths we
crossed seemed to consider it a parade, cheering us as we passed.
Seattle drivers are mostly nicer and more considerate than Austin
drivers outside of East Austin, and that likely made Critical Mass
more fun.

Even Seattle cops were better to CM than Austin cops-- after an
initial tense period, the SPD figured out what a Critical Mass looked
like and decided it was basically OK. One time, a couple of
undercover King County sheriff's deputies got hacked off at the Mass
and beat up a couple of riders; that became a serious point of
conflict between the two agencies for a time.

Chalo

Per :
lived in Corn Country and was out riding all the
time, never heard a honk, or saw a threatening swerve or an upraised
middle finger. It was pretty safe, in fact, draft combines and
tractors (not too hard at 18 or so mph, either g), never had a
problem. It's a pecking order thing; cyclists are at the very bottom.

Makes sense to me. Not exactly "right" in the sense of being
just... but it does make it's own kind of sense.

I think boating people call it "the right-of-way of tonnage".
--
PeteCresswell

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.tech,
Bill Sornson wrote:

CM hurts cyclists everywhere by engendering bad will among motorists
AND pedestrians for those on two wheels

bull pucky. PLONK.

On Jul 3, 1:03*am, (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.tech,

Bill Sornson wrote:
CM hurts cyclists everywhere by engendering bad will among motorists
AND pedestrians for those on two wheels

bull pucky. *PLONK.

Dennis P. Harris doesn't want to hear the truth.

His loss, and if he participates in bike hooligan behavior, so much
the worse for the cycling community as well.

CM could be constructive. From what I've seen of Austin Tx CM, in
person and on film, it is the opposite, and is intended by organizers
and participants to be exactly the negative force it is. "Revenge".

Anyone ever tell you, Dennis P? "There's no getting even in life".

Gonna plonk everyone who's talking at you? --D-y

Twitchell wrote:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-40338

After many months of peaceful coexistence, Atlanta police decided to pursue and
ticket the monthly Critical Mass bike ride. While other cities have had much
more confrontational episodes between police and Critical Mass, Atlanta has
usually been a very hospitable town for this loosely organized pro-bicycle
demonstration. After an article about Critical Mass appeared in the Atlanta
Journal-Constitution after last month's ride, there was a sudden, visible shift
in APD policy. A phalanx of police was waiting for the riders at Centennial
Olympic Park and dogged them all the way through Midtown, Virginia-Highlands,
Little Five Points, and the Old Fourth Ward for an hour. While things didn't get
particularly ugly between police and the Mass this time, the sudden interest of
the law may mark the beginning of the end of a long-standing friendly (and
peaceful) coexistence.


twitch

I just finished listening to the local rep for CM,he's a major league
nut bar has a hate on for civilization in general.CM rides are stupid
cars will never go away the fuel will just change and as much as I like
riding bikes will never replace them the best we can hope for is a
better co-existence.The sooner these confrontations end and we try to
inlist the help of the none riding majority the better.

wizardB wrote:

I just finished listening to the local rep for CM,he's a major league
nut bar has a hate on for civilization in general.CM rides are stupid
cars will never go away the fuel will just change

Cars != Civilization

Speaking of civilization-- we have it for ten thousand years or more,
we have significant numbers of people driving cars for eighty years,
and you think "cars will never go away". To me that displays a
serious failure of imagination.

I know this about cars by observing them directly: They have thrown
our human landscapes out of balance even more than our energy
economy. That much doesn't have anything to do with fuel or where it
comes from. We have cities that are designed far better for cars than
for human beings, and the cars have still done a great job of bringing
each other to a near-standstill. Maybe the cars need their own cars
so they can get away from the rat race. :^)

What can't go on, won't. Even if you think it will never go away.

Chalo

On Jul 3, 7:08*am, " wrote:
On Jul 3, 1:03*am, (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.tech,

Bill Sornson wrote:
CM hurts cyclists everywhere by engendering bad will among motorists
AND pedestrians for those on two wheels

bull pucky. *PLONK.

Dennis P. Harris doesn't want to hear the truth.

His loss, and if he participates in bike hooligan behavior, so much
the worse for the cycling community as well.

CM could be constructive. From what I've seen of Austin Tx CM, in
person and on film, it is the opposite, and is intended by organizers
and participants to be exactly the negative force it is. "Revenge".

Anyone ever tell you, Dennis P? "There's no getting even in life".

Gonna plonk everyone who's talking at you? * --D-y

LOL Here's a video from SD's latest:

http://www.cbs8.com/flv/video_pop_hd...&cat=undefined

On Jul 26, 12:54*pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
On Jul 3, 7:08*am, " wrote:





On Jul 3, 1:03*am, (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:21:11 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.tech,

Bill Sornson wrote:
CM hurts cyclists everywhere by engendering bad will among motorists
AND pedestrians for those on two wheels

bull pucky. *PLONK.

Dennis P. Harris doesn't want to hear the truth.

His loss, and if he participates in bike hooligan behavior, so much
the worse for the cycling community as well.

CM could be constructive. From what I've seen of Austin Tx CM, in
person and on film, it is the opposite, and is intended by organizers
and participants to be exactly the negative force it is. "Revenge".

Anyone ever tell you, Dennis P? "There's no getting even in life".

Gonna plonk everyone who's talking at you? * --D-y

LOL *Here's a video from SD's latest:

http://www.cbs8.com/flv/video_pop_hd...cat=undefined- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ooops. Looks like you have to click the "Critical Mass" banner on
left side of video pane.

"Chalo" wrote in message
...

Cars != Civilization

Speaking of civilization-- we have it for ten thousand years or more,
we have significant numbers of people driving cars for eighty years,
and you think "cars will never go away". To me that displays a
serious failure of imagination.

Chalo, I agree that civilization will change to exist without the
automobile. Also it will compact into the Caves of Steel in all likelihood
but that's still some time in the future don't you think?