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  #41  
Old March 4th 09, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jwbinpdx
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Posts: 61
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 4, 8:09*am, "
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:





jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. *It's good for the economy. *Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.


"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves cycling,
isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. *(Sounds eerily similar
to...you. *Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show it" part.)


HTH, BS
Plus I liked riding by the fat guy

or maybe just a person with physical challenges


So Bill you are one of those politically correct persons who does not
like to state the truth. *To me a fat guy is a fat guy. *He ain't
physically challenged. *Although I would not be surprised there isn't
some government program in our $787 billion stimulus bill to give aid
and comfort to fat guys.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Plus, the guy was not a dork because he was fat -- it was because he
was on an uber-bike and squeezed like a sausage in to full trade-team
outfit (down to the socks -- I never did that even when I raced and
had to wear uniforms). But again, that's his thang -- he can do what
he wants to do. It's good for the economy. -- Jay Beattie.
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  #42  
Old March 4th 09, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Bill Sornson[_5_]
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Posts: 1,541
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote (NOTE EDITING):
jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be
really liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts
a person just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.


"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves
cycling, isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. (Sounds
eerily similar to...you. Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show
it" part.)

HTH, BS


Plus I liked riding by the fat guy


or maybe just a person with physical challenges


(NOTE I DID NOT WRITE THAT AS/WHERE QUOTED)

So Bill you are one of those politically correct persons who does not
like to state the truth. To me a fat guy is a fat guy. He ain't
physically challenged. Although I would not be surprised there isn't
some government program in our $787 billion stimulus bill to give aid
and comfort to fat guys.


I'll never be accused of political correctness, and if some "fat guy" is
arrogant or otherwise a jerk I'd have no issue with a little harmless
name-calling. However, I don't like to judge others who are into cycling;
more power to 'em, I say. (Again, unless they demonstrate otherwise by
action or attitude or whatever.)

My point was that maybe the person has health issues that affect his body.
I give credit to anyone out on a bike busting it up a hill, "outfit" or not,
fit or not. (In fact, a fatty deserves more credit than an anorexic
sprout-eater.)

It's like that post in RBM recently about a driver incident. Cyclist
referrered to him as a "creature", "critter", "specimen" and "Neanderthal".
Then asks, "Why do they get so furious? Toilet training issues? Sexual
repression? Plain old stupidity? Any psychologists in the group today?"

Who's got the ugly attitude in that little exchange?

BS


  #43  
Old March 4th 09, 06:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote (NOTE EDITING):
jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be
really liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts
a person just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.

"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves
cycling, isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. (Sounds
eerily similar to...you. Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show
it" part.)

HTH, BS


Plus I liked riding by the fat guy


or maybe just a person with physical challenges


(NOTE I DID NOT WRITE THAT AS/WHERE QUOTED)


FFS Bill, you really don't get the quoting thing, do you. You wrote just
what has been quoted - both the "Dork" to "HTH, BS bit, and the phrase "or
maybe just a person with physical challenges".


  #44  
Old March 4th 09, 06:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Bill Sornson[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,541
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

Clive George wrote:
"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote (NOTE
EDITING):
jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still
broken and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it
feel to be passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires
and a broken leg going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't
care. It must be really liberating to not care about being a
dork. I think that puts a person just a little closer to Nirvana.
-- Jay Beattie.

"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves
cycling, isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. (Sounds
eerily similar to...you. Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show
it" part.)

HTH, BS


Plus I liked riding by the fat guy

or maybe just a person with physical challenges


(NOTE I DID NOT WRITE THAT AS/WHERE QUOTED)


FFS Bill, you really don't get the quoting thing, do you.


Of course I do. What I don't get is why someone would repeat phrases and
ADD QUOTATION DELINEATORS as if things had been posted twice. They weren't.

If you want to cherry pick a point upon which to comment, use quotation
marks or at least state what you're doing; otherwise, it's misleading at
best, dishonest at worst.

HTH

You wrote
just what has been quoted - both the "Dork" to "HTH, BS bit, and the
phrase "or maybe just a person with physical challenges".


FFS


Repetitive much?


  #45  
Old March 4th 09, 06:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 4, 10:09*am, "
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:



jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. *It's good for the economy. *Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.


"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves cycling,
isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. *(Sounds eerily similar
to...you. *Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show it" part.)


HTH, BS
Plus I liked riding by the fat guy

or maybe just a person with physical challenges


So Bill you are one of those politically correct persons who does not
like to state the truth. *To me a fat guy is a fat guy. *He ain't
physically challenged. *Although I would not be surprised there isn't
some government program in our $787 billion stimulus bill to give aid
and comfort to fat guys.


Hell yes, it's called the GOP.

Except it is only for fat guys who are rich, old and white.

D'ohBoy
  #46  
Old March 4th 09, 07:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

Clive George wrote:
"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote (NOTE EDITING):
jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be
really liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts
a person just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.
"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves
cycling, isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. (Sounds
eerily similar to...you. Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show
it" part.)

HTH, BS
Plus I liked riding by the fat guy
or maybe just a person with physical challenges

(NOTE I DID NOT WRITE THAT AS/WHERE QUOTED)


FFS Bill, you really don't get the quoting thing, do you. You wrote just
what has been quoted - both the "Dork" to "HTH, BS bit, and the phrase "or
maybe just a person with physical challenges".


Sorni has had that issue of not understanding threading for a while. If
you do not quote him in full in a response, he whines about you
"deleting" part of his post.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll
  #47  
Old March 4th 09, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 4, 11:53*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 4, 10:09*am, "



wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:56*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:


jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. *It's good for the economy. *Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.


"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves cycling,
isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. *(Sounds eerily similar
to...you. *Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show it" part.)


HTH, BS
Plus I liked riding by the fat guy
or maybe just a person with physical challenges


So Bill you are one of those politically correct persons who does not
like to state the truth. *To me a fat guy is a fat guy. *He ain't
physically challenged. *Although I would not be surprised there isn't
some government program in our $787 billion stimulus bill to give aid
and comfort to fat guys.


Hell yes, it's called the GOP.

Except it is only for fat guys who are rich, old and white.

D'ohBoy


That is to say, they take all comers, as long as they contribute
money. But the purpose is to support fat rich old white guys.
Fronted by a black man who's takin' it 'off the hook'. That still
cracks me up :-D

D'ohBoy
  #48  
Old March 4th 09, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Henry[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 410
Default Well, let's follow the logic to its conclusion.... WAS Wrongwrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 5, 2:44 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 3, 4:17 pm, Henry wrote:



On Mar 3, 3:07 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:


Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees
ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?


Hmmm.... this is a question that has been put forth many a time. And
rather tired, like Master Fogel's weight/time/power charts.

Let me turn that question around: if carbon rims are merely a trendy
(AND dangerous) fashion statement, whose benefits are limited, why
don't we examine the latest crop of alloy rims? Uhhhh.... Jobst
believes that the MA2 is the best rim ever made. But you can't get
those anymore. So let's get some other rim. But anodizing weakens
the rim! And most rims now are anodized. Maybe wood rims are the way
to go. Course wood rims can burn. All you need is spark and oxygen
and those rims are toast! And can you really go that much faster on a
bike with drop bars? Really, somewhat dangerous as the brakes aren't
always right at hand and not really much of a gain there in terms of
aerodynamics. Flat bars, wooden rims now. Stainless spokes?
Really? What is the gain there? A little more durable than zinc
plated but mostly they just stay shiny. So now we have a flat bar
bike with wooden rims and zinc plated spokes.

Now let's examine frame materials. Carbon? According to some
'authorities' here, very very dangerous and poorly understood
material. So that's out. Alloy? Fails catastrophically! OMG,
Timmy, you get off that alloy frame right now, it's about to
explode! Steel? Well, now, if you are talking that newfangled
thinwall ****e, you might as well form it into a coffin. I'm thinking
like mild steel plumbing pipe. But welding is really just a fad. I'm
thinking threaded elbows etc... from the plumbing supply shop will do
the trick.

And what the hell is up with all those gears? Really, one only needs
one in the front and one in the back to go. And bearings? ummmm....
waste of time, just makes your workouts longer.

Now that I think about it, why the hell bike anyway? Too spendy. And
way too dangerous, what with all that alloy and carbon about. Maybe
just walk. Course, you'd need shoes for that. Plus, pretty damn
dangerous. People fall down all the time. I seen it on tv - the old
lady grabs some little device and whines 'Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up!'.

Screw biking. Screw exercise. You retro-whiners have shown me the
light. Someone point me at the cheese and bratwurst, I'm done with
exercise.

D'ohBoy


Oops.
  #49  
Old March 4th 09, 11:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
--D-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,179
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 3, 4:17*pm, Henry wrote:
On Mar 3, 3:07 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:



Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?


Faster (as long as healthy), 10kg less body weight.
Faster (if not completely non-aero compared to a heavier, completely
aero bike), 5 kg lighter bike.

A neighbor has an all-new bike, est. build cost $2800; it weighs 16
1/2 lbs, I think it's a 56 c-c seat tube. No aero (IRT bars, wheels).
--D-y
  #50  
Old March 5th 09, 12:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Henry[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 410
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 5, 4:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"jim beam" wrote:
Henry wrote:
[...]
the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?


like spending $120k on a porsche when you can only drive 55? dude, some
people /like/ the porsche. and they can afford it. and we're not a
communist nanny state, yet.


A tiny fraction of Porsche owners take their cars to weekend track
events and such where the capabilities of the car can be used. The rest
are just trying to impress women with their potential spending ability.
Hell, I have gained on a Boxster on a long on-ramp while driving my
freaking company work truck.

Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full Lance-A-Like
outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll


being a recent ex FB (was 105 kg, now 80) myself I think I can speak
with some experience here.
I got fit (at 105 kg), and it really did rip my undies when the sprout-
eating "i wonder if they're only _as_ fit as me" types went skipping
past me going up a steep climb. What I also found out is that I go
much faster than most downhill. Flat stuff I was able to stay in a
group at ~40 KPH.
So I'd constantly find when I went and did K2 ( in 7 hours);
http://www.arcevents.co.nz/k2cycle/profile.html
that these 70 kg types ride like little girls down hill, which is kind
of funny as a lot of them were (little girls). Bad for my ego; except
the downhill where I didn't get passed once
So I decided to lose 25 kg, and I've still got the same bike, and I do
go uphill _quite_ a bit quicker; but when I was a FB I think I tried
harder
But on the negative side I get knocked around a lot more in the
wind :O
and I don't have the same "momentum" going downhill either!
I'll have to go back to K2 and see how much faster.

In all seriousness what is the difference between the reduction in
rider weight and reduction in bike weight of the same amount? It's
nice that my knees don't knock into my belly any more
Obviously I couldn't get a 25kg lighter bike, and my cycling fitness
has suffered a bit due to swimming and running training.
 




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