Mavic Open Pro & Open Pro CD

From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the slightly
more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? One
LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I can't
imagine a problem with the CD version?

On Jun 17, 11:23*pm, RS wrote:
From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the slightly
more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? *One
LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I can't
imagine a problem with the CD version?

CD, meaning hard anodizing, can be prone to cracks around the eyelets
due to that hard anodizing. Treated and then the eyelets are
installed, which causes micro cracks, which 'can' lead to p[remature
cracking. BUT look at DT, MUCH better rim, the 1.1, double eyelet.

Braking, with machined sidewalls on both, is a non issue.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:23�pm, RS wrote:
From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the slightly
more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? �One
LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I can't
imagine a problem with the CD version?

CD, meaning hard anodizing, can be prone to cracks around the eyelets
due to that hard anodizing.

yeah, people post pics of their cracked cd rims here all the time. not.

this is underinformed presumptive jobstian bull****. peter, you should
know better by now. rim cracking is due to excess spoke tension and the
fundamental problem of using extrusions to make the rim hoop -
[anisotropy]. observe manufacturer spec on spoke tension and you'll
have no more problem that you would with any other open pro rim.


Treated and then the eyelets are
installed, which causes micro cracks, which 'can' lead to p[remature
cracking. BUT look at DT, MUCH better rim, the 1.1, double eyelet.

Braking, with machined sidewalls on both, is a non issue.

RS wrote:
From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the slightly
more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? One
LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I can't
imagine a problem with the CD version?


from practical experience, they brake just fine - don't listen to the
fud you get on newsgroups propagated by people that criticize something
they've never used. no other disadvantage - they're no more susceptible
to cracking than any other open pro rim when the spokes are
over-tensioned. make sure therefore that the manufacturer's spoke
tension spec is properly observed.

other than that, if you're seeking wet weather wear resistance, skip
ahead to the ceramic rim - the cd does increase wear resistance, but not
hugely, and it does wear off. the ceramics are virtually wear proof.

"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
| Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
| On Jun 17, 11:23?pm, RS wrote:
| From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the
slightly
| more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? ?One
| LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I
can't
| imagine a problem with the CD version?
|
| CD, meaning hard anodizing, can be prone to cracks around the eyelets
| due to that hard anodizing.
|
| yeah, people post pics of their cracked cd rims here all the time. not.
|
| this is underinformed presumptive jobstian bull****. peter, you should
| know better by now. rim cracking is due to excess spoke tension and the
| fundamental problem of using extrusions to make the rim hoop -
| [anisotropy]. observe manufacturer spec on spoke tension and you'll
| have no more problem that you would with any other open pro rim.
|
|
| Treated and then the eyelets are
| installed, which causes micro cracks, which 'can' lead to p[remature
| cracking. BUT look at DT, MUCH better rim, the 1.1, double eyelet.
|
| Braking, with machined sidewalls on both, is a non issue.

First, the question wasn't Mavic vs DT. Second, the DT hasn't been around
long enough to know if it will have issues. Third, rim cracking has, in
fact, been a major, not minor problem, ever since the hard anodizing came
into vogue. Whether there are other factors at play is a legit question,
since the hard anodizing may have come at the same time as subtle changes in
rim alloys. One thing's certain- back in the day, we'd see many wheels fail
due to denting. Denting is almost never seen with modern rims, but cracking
is. I think we've traded one problem for another, and I don't think it's
just anodizing at fault, but it's likely a contributor.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
| Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
| On Jun 17, 11:23?pm, RS wrote:
| From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the
slightly
| more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? ?One
| LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I
can't
| imagine a problem with the CD version?
|
| CD, meaning hard anodizing, can be prone to cracks around the eyelets
| due to that hard anodizing.
|
| yeah, people post pics of their cracked cd rims here all the time. not.
|
| this is underinformed presumptive jobstian bull****. peter, you should
| know better by now. rim cracking is due to excess spoke tension and the
| fundamental problem of using extrusions to make the rim hoop -
| [anisotropy]. observe manufacturer spec on spoke tension and you'll
| have no more problem that you would with any other open pro rim.
|
|
| Treated and then the eyelets are
| installed, which causes micro cracks, which 'can' lead to p[remature
| cracking. BUT look at DT, MUCH better rim, the 1.1, double eyelet.
|
| Braking, with machined sidewalls on both, is a non issue.

First, the question wasn't Mavic vs DT. Second, the DT hasn't been around
long enough to know if it will have issues. Third, rim cracking has, in
fact, been a major, not minor problem, ever since the hard anodizing came
into vogue. Whether there are other factors at play is a legit question,
since the hard anodizing may have come at the same time as subtle changes in
rim alloys. One thing's certain- back in the day, we'd see many wheels fail
due to denting. Denting is almost never seen with modern rims, but cracking
is. I think we've traded one problem for another, and I don't think it's
just anodizing at fault, but it's likely a contributor.

What you think is not backed by evidence.
How about finding some evidence that rim
alloys have changed in such a way as to
promote cracking, then come back with it.
Otherwise you are promoting a brand new
unsubstantiated rumor among all the others
floating around here.

--
Michael Press

First, the question wasn't Mavic vs DT. Second, the DT hasn't been around
long enough to know if it will have issues. Third, rim cracking has, in
fact, been a major, not minor problem, ever since the hard anodizing came
into vogue. Whether there are other factors at play is a legit question,
since the hard anodizing may have come at the same time as subtle changes
in
rim alloys. One thing's certain- back in the day, we'd see many wheels
fail
due to denting. Denting is almost never seen with modern rims, but
cracking
is. I think we've traded one problem for another, and I don't think it's
just anodizing at fault, but it's likely a contributor.

What you think is not backed by evidence.
How about finding some evidence that rim
alloys have changed in such a way as to
promote cracking, then come back with it.
Otherwise you are promoting a brand new
unsubstantiated rumor among all the others
floating around here.

--
Michael Press

What's not backed up by evidence? I have a shop full of evidence. I have way
too much evidence, in fact!

Or are you talking specifically about the possibility that rim alloys have
changed over the years? That's really the only thing that hasn't come up in
the various discussions here, and I think it needs to be looked into. I've
seen non-anodized rims crack as well, just not nearly as many as with
anodized versions. But that could be due to sample size issues; since there
are far more anodized rims out there these days, you're not going to be as
likely to see a failure on a non-anodized rim. On the other hand, people who
know such things tell me that many rims which people believe not to have
been anodized, actually were.

It would be interesting to see someone do an analysis of the actual rim
material from past days to present.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On Jun 18, 10:29*am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message

t...
| Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
| On Jun 17, 11:23?pm, RS wrote:
| From practical experience any advantage or disadvantages to the
slightly
| more expensive Open Pro CD rim vs. the standard Open Pro rim? ?One
| LBS suggested the CD version didn't brake as well, other than that I
can't
| imagine a problem with the CD version?
|
| CD, meaning hard anodizing, can be prone to cracks around the eyelets
| due to that hard anodizing.
|
| yeah, people post pics of their cracked cd rims here all the time. *not.
|
| this is underinformed presumptive jobstian bull****. *peter, you should
| know better by now. *rim cracking is due to excess spoke tension and the
| fundamental problem of using extrusions to make the rim hoop -
| [anisotropy]. *observe manufacturer spec on spoke tension and you'll
| have no more problem that you would with any other open pro rim.
|
|
| Treated and then the eyelets are
| installed, which causes micro cracks, which 'can' lead to p[remature
| cracking. BUT look at DT, MUCH better rim, the 1.1, double eyelet.
|
| Braking, with machined sidewalls on both, is a non issue.

First, the question wasn't Mavic vs DT. Second, the DT hasn't been around
long enough to know if it will have issues. Third, rim cracking has, in
fact, been a major, not minor problem, ever since the hard anodizing came
into vogue. Whether there are other factors at play is a legit question,
since the hard anodizing may have come at the same time as subtle changes in
rim alloys. One thing's certain- back in the day, we'd see many wheels fail
due to denting. Denting is almost never seen with modern rims, but cracking
is. I think we've traded one problem for another, and I don't think it's
just anodizing at fault, but it's likely a contributor.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

We have been building with DT for almost a year, probably in excess of
200 rims, w/o any problem whatsoever. Small sample to be sure but.....

As for the OP and if some have an issue with Jobst, they should say
so..I guess he did. He has more problem with Jobst that I have with
shimano and sram.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
snip for clarity

I don't think it's
just anodizing at fault, but it's likely a contributor.


given that there's no correlation between anodizing crack orientation
and rim crack orientation, saying that anodizing is "likely a
contributor" is about as useful as saying that vegetarianism is "likely
a contributor" to bicycle/suv impact fatalities. some dead bike riders
may indeed have been vegetarians, but it made no difference to their
mortality when the suv entered the equation.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...

It would be interesting to see someone do an analysis of the actual rim
material from past days to present.

If you look at the specifications you'll see that nothing has changed in the
rim material since the mid-80's. What HAS changed is that they no longer
even try to make "light" rims as they did in the 60's and 70's.

400 grams is a light rim these days. Compare that to the 265 grams from
1980.