Bike Share graveyard

Op zondag 3 december 2017 17:10:53 UTC+1 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 12/3/2017 11:03 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-02 10:24, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 7:30:11 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-01 15:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:32:09 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-30 16:07, sms wrote:


[...]


... So the system is not heavily used. $2.75 gets you 90
minutes of Muni rides (but for now it's about four hours of
Muni rides).

They have designed the pricing to prevent tourists from
using the bicycle share system instead of renting bicycles
from bicycle tourist rental places.


They didn't think that through because it excludes many people
who combine errands or who have no problem cycling 1-2h to get
to a meeting and then the same time back. I also like to be
able to stop somewhere and enjoy the scenery which I even do on
routes I have cycled over 100 times. Without having to watch
the time.

People who ride 1-2 hours to get to a meeting are not using
ride-share bikes, unless they're going to a meeting of smelly,
broke people.


That sounds like the typical prejudices mauny people have about
cycling, "It's only for short errand rides or recreation, you can't
do any serious stuff with them".

Are you f******* nuts? Imagine if I had to spend four hours of my day
commuting back and forth to a meeting.


You'd feel great in the evening. Try it some day.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... I do that in real life, but
its on a plane to Seattle or San Francisco -- with a trial case,
suit, computer, etc. I'm not going to jump on a dopey MTB and ride
single-track to Folsom, petting horses along the way.Â* You live in a
semi-retirement fantasy world.


I am now in semi-retirement but also did so before that. Money is not
all in life, health and stress-reduction are more important IMO.


Who, by the way, is going to pay for my time riding four hours on a
bike to a meeting.Â* Would you?Â* Here is my bill: 4.0Â* Travel to and
from client meeting by bicycle.Â* .1 Pet horses. .3Â* Drink beer at
brewpub in Folsom.Â* .5 Meet with client to discuss huge bill for
riding bike, petting horse and drinking beer.


I am not greedy. I charge half my hourly rate for travel time and that
is the time traveled by car. If I go by bike I won't charge more and, in
fact, usually charge no travel time at all because I get a nice exercise
out of it.


I am self-employed, and my partnership bills based on time and
materials. No way I could work a full day and waste 4 hours riding a
distance I could cover in a car in 30 minutes. No client would pay.


I am self-employed as well but not encumbered by a partnership or other
kind of such structure. Also, my clients do not pay for my bike rides
because I usually don't bill at all for those. So they are better of
than via car.


I will ride through the hills before or after work, and I used to
raceÂ* on weeknights.Â* I've worked full 10-hour work days and still
ridden 70 miles (20 commuting and 50 racing) back when I raced at
PIR. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6pruxdPS4g&t=74sÂ* I could still
do that if I wanted to put in the time, which I don't.


Going round and round and round? I've got an MP3 player with me on both
bikes but I'd be bored stiff. I go here instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1USLVraV4mU


Ride share bikes are for short commutes, typically around a
compact city.


San Francisco isn't exactly compact. Neither is the rest of the Bay
Area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G52mQpoheL8

It is downtown where people use rideshare bikes. They're not riding
to Marin.


See? They are restricted. I do not like to be restricted in radius when
using a bike. Just like I wouldn't be with a rental car.

[...]

This is one of the reasons why I kept my old MTB. It doesn't
have much value so theft risk is secondary. However, it means
I'll have to drive to the Bay Area as usual and carry it
along.


The problem with dockless bicycle sharing is that people
lock the bicycle to end the rental period but they can have
it in their garage or behind their fence, or dump it in a
stream.

On Caltrain, people solve the last mile problem by bringing
their bicycle onto the train. Each train can hold 72 or 80
bicycles, and even that is not sufficient on some of the
trains. I use a folding bicycle to avoid getting bumped.


Here we only have buses. I can't use those because my panniers
are quite permanently mounted and they don't allow that because
bikes are transported on a front rack. Plus it's only two rack
slots so the risk of getting bumped off the last bus in the
evening is high. Therefore, despite fair prices from Folsom
(last town that is at low altitude) back home of $1.50 per
ride, $0.75 for seniors, I always ride home. OTOH that is also
a good muscle and endurance exercise.

I always ride home, too.Â* Otherwise I'd have to sleep at work.


How many miles is that and how much higher in altitude do you
live?

Depends on how I go home.Â* Shortest is only five miles.


That's considered a warm-up :-)


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I live about
400 feet above downtown, so all routes home require some climbing.
Longer route home is over the West Hills, which is 1,000 feet of
climbing in a few extra miles. Grades may exceed 20%.Â* It's super,
super gnarly.


With 5ft drop-off and stuff, I assume. When I went to Placerville last
week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail but, oh well..
When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and slide marks. One of
them must have slightly misjudged it or had too much speed and gotten to
within a foot or so from sliding off a rock face.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... But it helps build my giant quads and massive lungs.
When the weather is nice, I'll throw in something longer. My long
riding is typically on weekends.

Commuting for me is not some "dig me" single track, horse-petting
adventure.Â* I've been commuting to work by bike for as long as I've
had work -- or school. That's on roads, with cars -- rain, sleet or
snow (to a point).


I used to do that for more than a decade. Did it, but did not enjoy it.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I work in an urban area, outside my house and have
to be presentable.Â* Nobody stops to tell me "dude, it's raining!"
This is not dopey-ville.


Looks like you don't understand that there are people who can turn even
an errand run into something fun.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... Bikes make up a large part of traffic in
PDX, and nobody is impressed with riding in the rain, riding on trail
or riding anywhere. It's not a novelty act.

Now, on weekends, that's a different matter.Â* We're super gnarly here
in PDX! I do 5-10,000 feet of climbing just to get to the super-cool
brew pubs, coffee shops and Kombucha parlors. I ride out to the
Columbia Gorge
http://media4.trover.com/T/551b00661...w_large_4x.jpg
Or into the mountains.


Nice but I would not enjoy that road if there were a lot of crazy
motorcyclists and sports car driver on it. And on weekends there usually
are.


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fd/89/64/f...1a09f357f2.jpg
Today . . . into rain! Woohoo . . "dude, it's raining."


Try a MTB instead. More fun.

Lou Holtman is probably wondering: What is your problem with Jay's
preference where to live or to ride bike? ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Not at all but I do understand why Joerg prefers to ride off road instead of on a busy 4 lane road. BTW 80% of what Joerg write doesn't make sense to me, but hey it is his life.

Lou

On 12/3/2017 1:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-02 10:24, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 7:30:11 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-01 15:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:32:09 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-30 16:07, sms wrote:

snip

Depends on how I go home. Shortest is only five miles.


That's considered a warm-up :-)

I prefer to live near work. The furthest I've commuted on a daily basis is 24 miles RT -- which was easy because it was dead flat, and then all my elevation was on the weekends.

In my area you can live near work, then work moves, either you change
companies or the company you work for moves to another city. You
generally don't sell your house and move when the location where you
work changes. It's probably different in your profession where even if a
law office moves, it's probably not too far from downtown.

Nearly all the companies I worked for moved at least once, sometimes a
significant distance. The old tilt-up buildings in Silicon Valley are
slowly being razed and class A office space is being built. There is a
huge surplus of class A office space now, and more is being built. Some
remains empty for many years. There is also way to much lower-end office
space.

My wife is now in her fourth building for her current job. Two of the
building were torn down, the most recent one within hours of her company
leaving.

sms writes:

On 12/3/2017 1:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-02 10:24, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 7:30:11 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-01 15:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:32:09 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-30 16:07, sms wrote:

snip

Depends on how I go home. Shortest is only five miles.


That's considered a warm-up :-)

I prefer to live near work. The furthest I've commuted on a daily
basis is 24 miles RT -- which was easy because it was dead flat, and
then all my elevation was on the weekends.

In my area you can live near work, then work moves, either you change
companies or the company you work for moves to another city. You
generally don't sell your house and move when the location where you
work changes. It's probably different in your profession where even if
a law office moves, it's probably not too far from downtown.

That is my experience as well. The most recent company move halved my
commute to a very pleasant six miles, but there is no reason to believe
that situation will last.

--

On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-02 10:24, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 7:30:11 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-01 15:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:32:09 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-11-30 16:07, sms wrote:

snip

Depends on how I go home. Shortest is only five miles.


That's considered a warm-up :-)

I prefer to live near work. The furthest I've commuted on a daily
basis is 24 miles RT -- which was easy because it was dead flat, and
then all my elevation was on the weekends.

Longer mileage to or from work is optional, so if I want to throw in
a few thousand feet of climbing after work, I can do that with a
couple West Hills climbs on the way home -- or I can go straight
home. I can even do a ride on forest road or single track.
http://www.oregonhikers.org/forum/do...3448&mode=view


That would be a nice commute route.



... I live about 400 feet above downtown, so all routes home
require some climbing. Longer route home is over the West Hills,
which is 1,000 feet of climbing in a few extra miles. Grades may
exceed 20%. It's super, super gnarly.


With 5ft drop-off and stuff, I assume. When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.


That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.


... But it helps build my giant quads and massive lungs. When the
weather is nice, I'll throw in something longer. My long riding
is typically on weekends.

Commuting for me is not some "dig me" single track,
horse-petting adventure. I've been commuting to work by bike for
as long as I've had work -- or school. That's on roads, with cars
-- rain, sleet or snow (to a point).


I used to do that for more than a decade. Did it, but did not enjoy
it.

I enjoy it and have been doing it for five decades, if you count
commuting to school.

... I work in an urban area, outside my house and have to be
presentable. Nobody stops to tell me "dude, it's raining!" This
is not dopey-ville.


Looks like you don't understand that there are people who can turn
even an errand run into something fun.

Riding four hours to a meeting is not an errand.


To some people it is. Got one of those coming up this week, it just has
to be planned around other work.


... You story of running
through puddles is cute -- and optional. Try it for six months and
not as a frolic.


Doing it for over three years now, and did it when I was young.



... Bikes make up a large part of traffic in PDX, and nobody is
impressed with riding in the rain, riding on trail or riding
anywhere. It's not a novelty act.

Now, on weekends, that's a different matter. We're super gnarly
here in PDX! I do 5-10,000 feet of climbing just to get to the
super-cool brew pubs, coffee shops and Kombucha parlors. I ride
out to the Columbia Gorge
http://media4.trover.com/T/551b00661...w_large_4x.jpg


Or into the mountains.


Nice but I would not enjoy that road if there were a lot of crazy
motorcyclists and sports car driver on it. And on weekends there
usually are.


I'm quite certain there are no roads that would be acceptable to you,
which is too bad, because there are a lot of stunning roads around
here.


Side roads and farm roads are perfectly acceptable. Though boring but
I've got music on the bikes. Now that the weather gets colder the
battery in my MP3 player let me down a few times lately.


Try a MTB instead. More fun.

A MTB is more fun for trails. I haven't had a MTB for years, but
I'll probably get one, although I don't like lumbering around on
roads on a MTB to get to trails. We have some world-class trails
fairly close in. My next-door neighbor and best biking buddy is at
Sandy Ridge today. https://vimeo.com/69654301


That is real cycling!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-12-03 17:59, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

On 12/3/2017 1:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-02 10:24, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 7:30:11 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-01 15:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 1:32:09 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-30 16:07, sms wrote:

snip

Depends on how I go home. Shortest is only five miles.


That's considered a warm-up :-)

I prefer to live near work. The furthest I've commuted on a daily
basis is 24 miles RT -- which was easy because it was dead flat, and
then all my elevation was on the weekends.

In my area you can live near work, then work moves, either you change
companies or the company you work for moves to another city. You
generally don't sell your house and move when the location where you
work changes. It's probably different in your profession where even if
a law office moves, it's probably not too far from downtown.

That is my experience as well. The most recent company move halved my
commute to a very pleasant six miles, but there is no reason to believe
that situation will last.


My commute is around 10 seconds, on foot. That situation will not likely
change 8-)

The rest of the commute if needed happens at 125,000 miles/second
(cyberspace).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/4/2017 3:33 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

Again, I'd say it was simplistic rather than simple. "Lack of control"
is how psychologists explain that many people are afraid of flying in
commercial airliners. So those people drive because they are "in
control" and experience death rates that are far, far higher.

How about the many people who the trail sent to the hospital? Was their
safety not under their control?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-12-04 12:43, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 3:33 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

Again, I'd say it was simplistic rather than simple. "Lack of control"
is how psychologists explain that many people are afraid of flying in
commercial airliners. So those people drive because they are "in
control" and experience death rates that are far, far higher.


Apples and oranges. I was comparing _other_ car drivers to _me_ on bike
facilities. It is a fact that the number of critical situations I
experienced in traffic versus on bike paths has been way higher and it
is obvious why. One guy nearly ran me over with a pickup truck a month
ago. "Awfully sorry, man, didn't see you" while I was smack dab in front
of the cab. Luckily he had the window down and I used a drill sergeant's
holler that made him lock up his brakes. So now I am wondering if I also
need very bright side lights.


How about the many people who the trail sent to the hospital? Was their
safety not under their control?


Sure it was but they didn't keep control. I saw one of them ride off and
it become rather clear to me that it'll happen again. Another example
was a steep rocky downhill that I walk. Guy came flying by on a DH bike,
looked hairy but he didn't crash. His wife followed seconds later ...
whambam ... she crashed.

I have crashed on MTBs but then that was my own doing or equipment
malfunction (tire blow-out) and nothing serious. On normal routes I ride
cautiously and arrive safely.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-04 12:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-03 13:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:03:21 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
When I went to Placerville
last week two dirt bikers came from there. Illegal on the trail
but, oh well. When I got to the 3rd drop-off I saw tire tracks and
slide marks. One of them must have slightly misjudged it or had too
much speed and gotten to within a foot or so from sliding off a
rock face.

I'm sure it was super gnarly.

That section sure is. Had sent many people to the hospital.

Hmm. You're too timid to ride much on the roads, so you ride trails that
have sent many people to the hospital?

I'm not seeing much consistency there.


On trails my safety is under _my_ control. On busy roads my safety is
under the control of drivers in various states of distraction,
inebriation and more recently "stonedness".

Now that was simple, wasn't it?

If safety on trails under the control of the rider and you brag that
you ride on one trail that has sent many people to the hospital then
what are you saying here? That you ride on a trail where many people
can't control themselves? That many MTB riders can't or won't control
themselves?

And what about the charging mountain lions and the horses and cattle,
not to mention the poison ivy and poison oak.

Damn! You are making the public highways look better and better.


--
Cheers,

John B.