Here's a solution. What was the problem?

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 1:15:41 PM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 1:08:30 AM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 08:36:22 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Gotta get consumers to spend money somehow. If manufacturers tell them
that what they have is fine manufacturers will go out of business.
Manufacturers need to market stuff that's new and better even if it isn't.

Cheers

Come on, Ridealot, you bought the cut-down Di2 system (whatever it is
called on road bikes) of electronic shifting, didn't you? (I have the
full auto gear change system, which also controls the adaptive
suspension. See http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html I don't
feel ripped, but I think road bikers should.) Seems to me ABS would be a
lot more useful, especially where you and Duane and I live, than mere
electronic gear switching for a grand.

Andre Jute
Manufacturers make their gravy from options list


I’m not sure I would pay extra for ABS any more than I would have for Di2.
But I expect ABS to become standard just as disc brakes and Di2 seem to be
now. A friend just bought a Specialized Ruby (ladies version of the
Roubaix) with 11 speed 105 for $1800 CA and it came with Di2. Not a bad
price for a full carbon road bike.

Didn't know Di2 trickled down to 105 level.

Lou

wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 1:15:41 PM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 1:08:30 AM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 08:36:22 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Gotta get consumers to spend money somehow. If manufacturers tell them
that what they have is fine manufacturers will go out of business.
Manufacturers need to market stuff that's new and better even if it isn't.

Cheers

Come on, Ridealot, you bought the cut-down Di2 system (whatever it is
called on road bikes) of electronic shifting, didn't you? (I have the
full auto gear change system, which also controls the adaptive
suspension. See http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html I don't
feel ripped, but I think road bikers should.) Seems to me ABS would be a
lot more useful, especially where you and Duane and I live, than mere
electronic gear switching for a grand.

Andre Jute
Manufacturers make their gravy from options list


I’m not sure I would pay extra for ABS any more than I would have for Di2.
But I expect ABS to become standard just as disc brakes and Di2 seem to be
now. A friend just bought a Specialized Ruby (ladies version of the
Roubaix) with 11 speed 105 for $1800 CA and it came with Di2. Not a bad
price for a full carbon road bike.

Didn't know Di2 trickled down to 105 level.

Lou


No, I didn’t either.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.

At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.


I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes have manged with ordinary brakes forever. There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia. You'd give yourself a hernia.

I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both). https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes

I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.

Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.

Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.


It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.

I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?

No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.

And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.

I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.

We're all adults (?).

You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.


I would think you would do it out of self-respect. Imagine James Joyce acting that way.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 24/10/2019 10:42 a.m., jbeattie wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.


At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.



I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes have manged with ordinary brakes forever. There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia. You'd give yourself a hernia.


I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both). https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes


I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.


I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.


Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.


Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.




It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.


I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.


And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?


No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.


And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.


I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.


We're all adults (?).


You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.



I would think you would do it out of self-respect. Imagine James Joyce acting that way.


Or the president of the U.S. Oh wait...

On Thursday, 24 October 2019 10:42:31 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.

At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.


I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes have manged with ordinary brakes forever. There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia. You'd give yourself a hernia.

I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both).. https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes

I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.

Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.

Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.


It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.

I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?

No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.

And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.

I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time.. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.

We're all adults (?).

You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.


I would think you would do it out of self-respect. Imagine James Joyce acting that way.

-- Jay Beattie.

I see that you too got sucked in to arguing with the resident Troll. LOL

Cheers

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 4:04:01 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean? I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all. Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds? I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS. I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

-- Jay Beattie.

Uh, Jay, you're a lawyer. You're supposed to be smart enough to recognize tongue in cheek humor.

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:27:25 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
Actually, Slow Johnny, you're responding to me. I wrote that about the Jensen Interceptor FF. Unlike you, I was there, I drove an Interceptor as my everyday car, and on several occasions I drove an FF, including the long trip in anger in adverse conditions that I describe. If you think I got any of the facts wrong, don't be such a coward and hide behind Tom, stand up like a man (albeit one with Duck's Disease) and tell me to my face what you think I got wrong, and I'll roll over an ignorant little loudmouth like you in about ten seconds.

Andre Jute
You may call me sir, as long as you get off the sidewalk when I approach

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:38:16 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:48:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I'm familiar with various forms of ABS, from the crude version taken off Boeing passenger jets for the Jensen Interceptor FF* (Formula Ferguson four wheel drive, developed for grand prix cars) which took the better part of a second to respond, to the modern versions. But I've commented before that a really pleasing ABS effect came with a Gazelle Toulouse c2004 (the black crow sleeper -- http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGgazelletoulouse.html -- before the Toulouse went all trendy) which had a disc brake at the front and a limp early model -41 Shimano roller brake at the back which almost automatically stopped the rear overtaking the front on wet downhills, so, while you had to be careful with the on-off nature of the wretched Shimano front disc, you just slammed the rear brake lever to the stops and held it there to stabilise the bike. I actually considered fitting an older, limper roller brake on my Trek Smover in the place of the Shimano IM70 roller --
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html -- which I found too sharp for a rear brake even on a sporting bike, though on the front it was superior to a disc.


Errr. TOM! The Jensen Interceptor FF used the Dunlop's Maxaret the
first anti-lock braking system (ABS) to be widely used. Introduced in
the early 1950s,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_FF

"The Jensen FF is a four-wheel drive grand tourer produced by British
car manufacturer Jensen Motors between 1966 and 1971. It was the first
non all-terrain production car equipped with four-wheel drive and an
anti-lock braking system.

The use of four-wheel drive in a passenger car preceded the successful
AMC Eagle by thirteen years and the Audi Quattro by fourteen years,
and the Subaru Leone by five years. The Dunlop Maxaret mechanical
anti-lock braking system had previously been used only on aircraft,
lorries, and racing cars.

As a comment, it might have been a "crude version" but the earliest
versions of the Maxaret system reduced stopping distances by a third.

Tom, do try to get it right next time.
--
cheers,

John B.

This is why your appellation of "Slow Johnny" is so accurate.

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 3:42:31 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.

At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.

I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes

If you mean my Kranich is a "boat-anchor", you haven't been paying attention. The specially drawn tubes from Columbus make the frame lighter than my ali Trek Smover and my ali Gazelle Toulouse. You're mouthing off your prejudices, just like Krygowski and Slow Johnny. Try facts for a change.

have manged with ordinary brakes forever.

So what? Once more, you haven't been paying attention. I've posted links to the history, and many times to my short summary of the history. In the first instance in 1935, the first Kranich was a tandem, the singleton version in 1936 was called the "Unisex Crossframe Deluxe", and the last postwar version after Gazelle took over Locomotive was called the "Priesterrijwiel" or "Priest's Bicycle", for a time when priests wore ankle-length split coats. Do any of these sound to you like lively cyclists who need anything more than coaster brakes? The recreation that over a couple of decades became the Kranich I ride is an entirely different bike redesigned from the ground up, keeping only the ultra-stiff but lightweight form of the frame. If you don't like it because it doesn't look like the bikes you're used to, tough. I don't have such prejudices.

There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

Any good electric bike with a bottom bracket motor has software already to implement ABS. It's dinner time and I'm hungry, so if you want to know more, ask Tom Kunich what is required or read my book DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS, published by Robert Bentley, Boston.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia.

What's that, some sort of Portland redneck sport? If that's more snark about what you imagine my bike weighs, it's asked and answered.

You'd give yourself a hernia.

Especially since I electrified my bike. The motor and the battery weigh more than the rest of the bike.

I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

If you'd asked me politely, I would told you. What you believe is irrelevant. I don't care about your faith or sex practices. as long as you practice both behind closed doors.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both).. https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes

I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.

Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.

Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.

Admittedly, the last ones I drove were from Ford and BMW, but they were outrageously good cars.

It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.

I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?

No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.

And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.

I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time.. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.

We're all adults (?).

You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.

I would think you would do it out of self-respect.

Really? I would have thought a lawyer would have more sense than to make an "I won't respect you in morning" argument to someone like me. It's an insult to think I'd fall for something so hackneyed. You still believe I care **** what you think. On the contrary, I lost all respect for you, and with it any imperative to the social niceties, when you joined that scum in hounding Tom and me.

In any event, I'm just showing those losers, in their own methods, how it is done by someone with brains. Why should I give up efficient methods because they bother you? I didn't see you complain when Krygowski assaulted my free speech?

In addition, it is hypocritical for you to keep needling me, and then to blame me for responding in kind. In short, get out of my face and I won't be in yours.

Imagine James Joyce acting that way.

In real life James Joyce was an insensitive asshole. If you knew anything about literature, you would know that. Since I do know about literature and is personalities, I don't have to imagine how Joyce acted: I already know.

-- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute
Not in the least suggestible

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 4:11:30 PM UTC+1, duane wrote:
On 24/10/2019 10:42 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.

At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.


I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes have manged with ordinary brakes forever. There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia. You'd give yourself a hernia.

I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both).. https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes

I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.

Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.

Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.


It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.

I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?

No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies.. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.

And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.

I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.

We're all adults (?).

You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.


I would think you would do it out of self-respect. Imagine James Joyce acting that way.

Or the president of the U.S. Oh wait...

Heh-heh. -- AJ

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 6:06:31 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 24 October 2019 10:42:31 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:21:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 2:29:36 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 5:07:14 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 12:04:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

snip

Proper ABS on a bike would be superb for cyclists who hold conversations while they ride, rather than fight the controls every moment.

What does that even mean?

It means people who cycle carelessly and slam on the brakes because they notice potential hazards late. I have two bikes, disc and roller front brakes, that will throw you over the handlebars onto your face every time you apply the brakes carelessly. Not so the bike on which I have specified the lowest calliper force and most progressive rim hydraulics then available (no longer available, presumably because "real cyclists" only want the strong medicine). I expect devices I own to be my servants, not to demand more attention than I wish to give them.

I don't know anyone who "fights the controls every moment" -- or fights them at all.

Lucky you.

Why would people need panic-stop traction control at talking speeds?

What do you think "talking speeds" are?

On the Utopia, I'm imagining 10-12mph on the dead flats. http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute%27sUtopiaKranich.pdf Not really the type of riding the requires a sophisticated braking system.

At the 10-12mph you "imagine" on dead flats, you won't be able to keep up even on the hills. The roads are uneven, and often wet, with loose gravel. On the downhills, on tracks that you wouldn't trust your bike to, I tough 50kph or so. So would you mind awfully not telling me what I need on my bike. You're starting to sound like Franki-boy.


I'm not telling you what you need on your bike. I'm telling you that people who ride boat-anchor mixtes have manged with ordinary brakes forever. There is no evidence of Utopia Kranichii (whatever the plural is for Utopia Kranich) skidding down the road at highway speeds and crashing into each other or encountering conditions where ABS would even matter. If you have traction loss on both wheels, ABS thinks the vehicle is stopped.
It's useless, unless its implemented in some other way on a bike.

BTW, I have yet to see a Utopia Kranich out on my gravel routes, hucking down the trail at 50km. E.g. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...ney-to-bennett Imagine doing a hike-a-bike with that Utopia. You'd give yourself a hernia.

I believe you are referring to a group of riders who have happily lived with coaster brakes since time immemorial.

This whole post from you, Jay, demonstrates an infection of Krygowski Dementia, the belief that you know more about my circumstances, and the people I cycle with, than I do. In fact, the only person I've even heard of who rides on a coaster brake is the dumpster-diver Frank Krygowski.

I don't know your circumstances, but low-speed cyclists have managed with even the crudest of brakes -- like coaster brakes (and drums, or both). https://www.gazellebikes.com/en-gb/granny-bikes

I have Gazelle bikes and they all have good brakes, same as most mass-market bikes.

I have a front disc that shudders -- in fact, I need to go work on it tonight -- it is de facto ABS, and it drives me crazy. An ABS front would probably freak-out a lot of cyclists.

If the ABS is well made, you'd notice it as little as in a car. I don't know if a cheap car like your Subaru has ABS, but the point of my postscript about the early airplane-type ABS on the Jensen FF was that it was slow enough to feel the pulses individually, and that we've come a very long way since then. Tom has some numbers in a nearby post, which appear to assume a 1G stop, which happens only under test circumstances -- meaning that real-life stops require more time and space. And at that, the half-second Tom reckons the software requires is already faster than the three-quarters second which is *fast for a human*.

Don't dis my Subaru.

Well, I suppose it would be okay for a student or some other poor person who can't afford a Range Rover.

Yes, the pride of India and suburban strip malls across the US. Wealthy soccer moms with their rino guards.


It has ABS, but it doesn't make much difference where its needed the most. http://www.snow-forecast.com/system/...jpg?1353263041 That's right on the way to ski resort, and its oddly empty road. It's a conga line on weekends. Anyway, ABS on snow and ice doesn't work in a four wheel skid. Imagine all the processing power in modern ABS systems and then transfer that to a bike. More electronic stuff to add to the Garmin, Di2, rear radar, etc., etc.

I know. But far from being a Luddite, I'm a technofreak toolfondler. I don't cycle for the simplicity, I cycle for my health, so technical gear is welcome on my bikes.

And if a cyclist wants ABS, just get a disc brake and contaminate the pads with a little oil or warp the rotor a bit. Instant ABS.

That's a version of the "Serendipity Anti-Blockers" I described in the post above about the disc/limp-roller duo.

I'm going to patent my mistakes and market them.

You and everyone else. Engineering research is much accelerated by the ability to fail fast, so that all possibilities may be examined in the least time and eliminated at the least cost until only the most effective remains. Now watch Franki-boy go into orbit because he hasn't the faintest idea of research-for-profit but won't be able to keep his trap shut.

Do you have some odd Frank fetish?

No, but I promised Krygowski that for trying to run me out when I came here, I would kick him in the goolies every so often until he runs or dies. I keep my word, and assaults on free speech by people who should know better are anyway unforgivable.

And speaking of fetishes, you should drop the third-grade naming conventions like Franki-boy and Slow Johnny.

I wonder if you grasp how intensely irritating it is to a clown like Krygowski, who has nothing except his dignity, to have his dignity undermined in that simple, repetitive manner? If you think I care **** that you too find it intensely irritating, you should think again. More precisely, you should have thought to say something about Franki-boy's assault on free speech back then, which would be a reason for me to consider what you say now. And naming conventions are efficient in that they don't waste any of my time. The effect of "Franki-boy" can be seen in cold print, where a journalist at some local giveaway sheet, who stood in awe of Krygowski until he looked him up on the net and discovered him consistently contemptuously treated, gained the courage to call him a "scold" in permanent print. Ask Franki-boy what happened to his dream of being "a spokesman for bicycles". The irony is that, had Franki-boy instead of trying to assault me sucked up to me, I would probably have given him his dream, out of boredom or to thumb my nose at the Establishment; after all, he wouldn't be the first uptight dumbo I put in a governor's mansion or a prime minister's office, and so on, people who didn't have a single useful idea of their own but had the foresight to marry heiresses and so were able to afford the best.

As for Slow Johnny, he's a bully (and the ugliest of the Ugly Americans) and should be put down. Often, if we can't get away with doing it permanently.

We're all adults (?).

You first, and then persuade Slow Johnny, Franki-boy, Peter Howard in all his sock puppets, and Rideablot to behave like human beings, and then I'll think about it.


I would think you would do it out of self-respect. Imagine James Joyce acting that way.

-- Jay Beattie.

I see that you too got sucked in to arguing with the resident Troll. LOL

Cheers

Sucked in? Nah! Jay volunteered, running all the way. Like Tom, I used to think Jay was smart, but his posts since Mr Trump was elected and did so well makes me wonder if he has the nous to come in out of the rain.

Andre Jute
Relentless rigor -- "Little Boots", Emperor of Rome