Michelin Power Endurance Tires

On 2017-10-25 09:53, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third
ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance
though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that
the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply
be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos
on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them
and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a
real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a
Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of
flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The Gatorskin
side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them signed off
prematurely with side wall failures and a third had a side wall
failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before that
mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't cost
an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not willing
to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using now has
miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you never know when
it is closed to the end. However, their side walls are good and
they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they cost about the same as
Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to a throw-away mentality
like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very peculiar
riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and the
occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to expect from
any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky singletrack with
Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other with
the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review

Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my bicycles.
And then I had some notable failures, always in the sidewall, with the
bead separating dramatically from the sidewall, often in less than 1000
miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that includes
off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which includes long
distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side walls
fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side walls are too
thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue but
don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking about
ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer sometimes
delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because we have lots of
debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of my miles have to be on
roads.

That was Tom that said that not me and I don't believe a word either of you say


I responded to Tom. Whether you believe it or not I don't care.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third
ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance
though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that
the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply
be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos
on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them
and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a
real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a
Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of
flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The Gatorskin
side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them signed off
prematurely with side wall failures and a third had a side wall
failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before that
mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't cost
an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not willing
to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using now has
miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you never know when
it is closed to the end. However, their side walls are good and
they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they cost about the same as
Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to a throw-away mentality
like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very peculiar
riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and the
occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to expect from
any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky singletrack with
Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other with
the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review

Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my bicycles.
And then I had some notable failures, always in the sidewall, with the
bead separating dramatically from the sidewall, often in less than 1000
miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that includes
off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which includes long
distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side walls
fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side walls are too
thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue but
don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking about
ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer sometimes
delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because we have lots of
debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of my miles have to be on
roads.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I find the sidewals on the Gatorskins a big
flimsy so be careful with bottle dynamos and don't take them offroad
much (I tend to do that with my road bike).

Stop taking them offroad. As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out.

On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my
third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4
Endurance though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something
that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that
could simply be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized
Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500
miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them
one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are
VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on
a Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king
of flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The
Gatorskin side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them
signed off prematurely with side wall failures and a third had
a side wall failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before
that mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't
cost an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not
willing to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using
now has miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you
never know when it is closed to the end. However, their side
walls are good and they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they
cost about the same as Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to
a throw-away mentality like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very
peculiar riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and
the occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to
expect from any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky
singletrack with Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead
which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other
with the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review



Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my
bicycles. And then I had some notable failures, always in the
sidewall, with the bead separating dramatically from the sidewall,
often in less than 1000 miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that
includes off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which
includes long distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky
trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side
walls fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side
walls are too thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue
but don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking
about ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer
sometimes delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because
we have lots of debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of
my miles have to be on roads.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I find the sidewals on the Gatorskins a big
flimsy so be careful with bottle dynamos and don't take them offroad
much (I tend to do that with my road bike).

Stop taking them offroad.



Ah yes. When I arrive at a gravel section of road on my road bike I have
to say "I could continue in my car but bicycles are inferior so I have
to turn around and get my car". Great idea.


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls
will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will
keep that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on
products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from
the product, as I did here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my
third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4
Endurance though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something
that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that
could simply be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized
Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500
miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them
one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are
VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on
a Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king
of flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The
Gatorskin side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them
signed off prematurely with side wall failures and a third had
a side wall failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before
that mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't
cost an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not
willing to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using
now has miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you
never know when it is closed to the end. However, their side
walls are good and they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they
cost about the same as Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to
a throw-away mentality like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very
peculiar riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and
the occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to
expect from any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky
singletrack with Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead
which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other
with the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review



Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my
bicycles. And then I had some notable failures, always in the
sidewall, with the bead separating dramatically from the sidewall,
often in less than 1000 miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that
includes off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which
includes long distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky
trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side
walls fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side
walls are too thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue
but don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking
about ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer
sometimes delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because
we have lots of debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of
my miles have to be on roads.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I find the sidewals on the Gatorskins a big
flimsy so be careful with bottle dynamos and don't take them offroad
much (I tend to do that with my road bike).

Stop taking them offroad.



Ah yes. When I arrive at a gravel section of road on my road bike I have
to say "I could continue in my car but bicycles are inferior so I have
to turn around and get my car". Great idea.


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls
will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will
keep that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on
products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from
the product, as I did here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When was the last time you walked to Sacramento

On 2017-10-25 10:45, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]

... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls
will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will
keep that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on
products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from
the product, as I did here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When was the last time you walked to Sacramento


Why should I do that?

Once I am fully retired I might hike the El Dorado Trail and other MTB
routes just for fun. Cities do not interest me at all.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my
third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4
Endurance though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something
that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that
could simply be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized
Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500
miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them
one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are
VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on
a Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king
of flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The
Gatorskin side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them
signed off prematurely with side wall failures and a third had
a side wall failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before
that mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't
cost an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not
willing to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using
now has miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you
never know when it is closed to the end. However, their side
walls are good and they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they
cost about the same as Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to
a throw-away mentality like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very
peculiar riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and
the occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to
expect from any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky
singletrack with Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead
which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other
with the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review



Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my
bicycles. And then I had some notable failures, always in the
sidewall, with the bead separating dramatically from the sidewall,
often in less than 1000 miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that
includes off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which
includes long distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky
trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side
walls fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side
walls are too thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue
but don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking
about ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer
sometimes delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because
we have lots of debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of
my miles have to be on roads.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I find the sidewals on the Gatorskins a big
flimsy so be careful with bottle dynamos and don't take them offroad
much (I tend to do that with my road bike).

Stop taking them offroad.



Ah yes. When I arrive at a gravel section of road on my road bike I have
to say "I could continue in my car but bicycles are inferior so I have
to turn around and get my car". Great idea.


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls
will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will
keep that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on
products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from
the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:57:18 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:53:14 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:32:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 08:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third
ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance
though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that
the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply
be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos
on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them
and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a
real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a
Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of
flat-proof tires.


I used to be of that opinion as well but not anymore. The Gatorskin
side walls are too flimsy. I tried four. Two of them signed off
prematurely with side wall failures and a third had a side wall
failure shortly before end of life.

They do last 2500mi in hilly terrain with my weight and riding
style but what good does it do if a side walls fail before that
mileage?

Still looking, haven't found a good tire yet. One that doesn't cost
an arm and a leg. So if a tire only lasts 1500mi I am not willing
to pay more than $20. The CST Conquistare I am using now has
miserably short life at 1000-1200mi. No TWI so you never know when
it is closed to the end. However, their side walls are good and
they can be had for $15. IOW per mile they cost about the same as
Gatorskins though I hate to subscribe to a throw-away mentality
like that. Hence I'll keep looking.

Joerg, it isn't very fair blaming Continental for your very peculiar
riding style.


My road bike is ridden normally. Yes, that include some gravel and the
occasional dirt road but that is something one has got to expect from
any roadworthy vehicle. I am not riding rocky singletrack with
Gatorskins, that's where I use my MTB instead which has much sturdier tires.

I would have never brought it up if I hadn't found lots of other with
the same problems:

https://www.bikeshophub.com/blog/201...in-tire-review

Quote

"Wayne Myer April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

I used to swear by the Gatorskins and had them on all of my bicycles.
And then I had some notable failures, always in the sidewall, with the
bead separating dramatically from the sidewall, often in less than 1000
miles"

End quote.

He describes almost verbatim what I have experienced.


I have NEVER had a sidewall failure on Gatorskins and that includes
off-road riding my bike along the bay trails which includes long
distances of gravel trail and some heavily rocky trail.

And I've been using Gatorskins since they came out.


Well, out here and in many other parts of the country their side walls
fail. Looking at the tires that isn't a surprise. The side walls are too
thin.

Meantime I have found tires that do not have this side wall issue but
don't last long enough. So, still looking. I was thinking about
ThickSlicks until you mentioned that the rubber layer sometimes
delaminates. That would be a show-stopper for me because we have lots of
debris on the roads. Bike paths don't but half of my miles have to be on
roads.

That was Tom that said that not me and I don't believe a word either of you say

And I also don't believe Jay's comment about the tire I recommended to you, the forte metro, in 25c, which doesn't exist anymore, and wish I remembered it for argument sake. Jay what did you say about this thing?

I can't remember what I ate for dinner last night.

I think the Forte Metros are fine, but I think I said that they were not magical in terms of wet-grip and need a slightly more aggressive pattern for the leaf season. They are tough enough and a bit sluggish in 35mm, which is to be expected. Otherwise a fine tire.

My latest tire purchase for the commuter were some relatively svelt 32mm set of Vittoria Zaffiro Pro folding tires with a Passela-esque tread pattern which works better during the leaf season than straight slicks. Nashbar was giving them away, so why not. I usually don't use a folding tire on my commuter because of short wear life, but these things were cheap, so I'll give them a whirl.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 25/10/17 09:50, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on
this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some
people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the
Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be
personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on
them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and
showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real
long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a
Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of
flat-proof tires.


Luck or a lack there of plays a big role.

Wet weather multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

Riding to the left of the fog line (right for the USians), where all the
glass and rubbish gets deposited by the passing of motor vehicles, also
multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

I rode with a guy who loved Conti GP4000 tyres. He got plenty of
punctures. Pretty sure he got more than me on Michelin Krylion (now
Pro4 something) tyres.

--
JS

On 10/25/2017 8:25 PM, James wrote:


Riding to the left of the fog line (right for the USians), where all the
glass and rubbish gets deposited by the passing of motor vehicles, also
multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

Indeed. Last year or the year before, on one long (for me) ride I like
to do occasionally, I was on a fairly busy highway. A truck came up
behind me not long before my left turn onto a quieter road. I thought "I
can take the lane, but he'll have to slow down before that hill. I'll
give him a break and move to the shoulder."

I was rewarded with a flat tire. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion..

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires.

That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls.

I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires.

Lou