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Oregon legal advice



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 27th 18, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Oregon legal advice

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:27:32 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 18:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/26/2018 7:24 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-25 07:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Oregon residents who happen to be lawyers (ahem):

Here's the Oregon state law requiring mandatory bike facility use:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

814.420: Failure to use bicycle lane or path; exceptions; penalty.

(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a
person commits the offense of failure to use a bicycle lane or path if
the person operates a bicycle on any portion of a roadway that is not a
bicycle lane or bicycle path when a bicycle lane or bicycle path is
adjacent to or near the roadway.

(2) A person is not required to comply with this section unless the
state or local authority with jurisdiction over the roadway finds, after
public hearing, that the bicycle lane or bicycle path is suitable for
safe bicycle use at reasonable rates of speed. (3) A person is not in
violation of the offense under this section if the person is able to
safely move out of the bicycle lane or path for the purpose of:

(a) Overtaking and passing another bicycle, a vehicle or a pedestrian
that is in the bicycle lane or path and passage cannot safely be made in
the lane or path.

(b) Preparing to execute a left turn at an intersection or into a
private road or driveway.

(c) Avoiding debris or other hazardous conditions.

(d) Preparing to execute a right turn where a right turn is authorized.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Any idea about the risk of tickets if one leaves a bike lane?


Even in Oregon it seems quite real:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwzVR48nay4

It's just like in California, all it takes is getting a cop p....d at
you or a cop not liking cyclists in general. In California they can
supposedly even book you into jail if you don't have ID, which I find
strange. Not sure what will happen to the bike then.

Now close your eyes again and pretend it ain't happening.


Joerg, are you arguing against yourself? If the presence of a bike lane
means you'd get ticketed for avoiding the debris it harbors, then it
seems stupid to ask for bike lanes!


There was no debris visible in the video. The officer also said he'll
make another camera pass a ways back. Probably to be able to prove in
court that the bike lane was clear. As they usually are.


And yes, debris is a well known disadvantage of bike lanes.



Out here they are quite clean except for the occasional items fallen
from trucks. Which you also have in the road. You seem to be living in a
filthy neighborhood.


I'll ride for a month or more in lanes clogged with wet leaf piles. They get packed down and turn in to leaf moguls. Then we get snow, and the left over gravel sits in the bike lanes for a month or more -- longer outside of city limits. At least Portland spent our hard-earned tax dollars on this: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._bike-lan.html

Some years the city is more diligent with sweeping than others. This year they weren't particularly diligent. The only entirely separate path I use commuting didn't get gravel and is not under trees, so sweeping was not an issue. It's problem was snow removal, but that was only a problem for a week.. Another separated path I used for weekend rides was like riding through a forest of downed branches, but it is a state park (Tryon Creek) and gets maintained. https://www.spinlister.com/blog/tryo...d-lake-oswego/ The branches disappear after a week or two. The roads are reliably clear, and its the bike lanes that really become collectors for gravel, leaves, jetsam, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

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  #12  
Old March 27th 18, 08:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Oregon legal advice

On 2018-03-27 09:41, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:27:32 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 18:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:


[...]


And yes, debris is a well known disadvantage of bike lanes.



Out here they are quite clean except for the occasional items
fallen from trucks. Which you also have in the road. You seem to be
living in a filthy neighborhood.


I'll ride for a month or more in lanes clogged with wet leaf piles.
They get packed down and turn in to leaf moguls. Then we get snow,
and the left over gravel sits in the bike lanes for a month or more
-- longer outside of city limits. At least Portland spent our
hard-earned tax dollars on this:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._bike-lan.html


There is a much more cost-efficient and healthy alternative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7qavF3fT7I


Some years the city is more diligent with sweeping than others.
This year they weren't particularly diligent. The only entirely
separate path I use commuting didn't get gravel and is not under
trees, so sweeping was not an issue. It's problem was snow removal,
but that was only a problem for a week. Another separated path I used
for weekend rides was like riding through a forest of downed
branches, but it is a state park (Tryon Creek) and gets maintained.
https://www.spinlister.com/blog/tryo...d-lake-oswego/
The branches disappear after a week or two. The roads are reliably
clear, and its the bike lanes that really become collectors for
gravel, leaves, jetsam, etc.


When the streets are dirtier than usual like after the recent rain
storms I sometimes use my MTB even for errands into the valley. It does
not care one bit about such debris, plus it allows me to sprinkle in
some fun trail excursions. Sometimes I purposely ride over branches and
other such things laying around, as a courtesy to road bike riders.

With the usual 55psi in the tires my MTB carries an average speed
penalty of 0.5-1mph on the road which isn't so bad. The main downside it
that it eats rear tires when riding on pavement.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #13  
Old March 27th 18, 09:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Oregon legal advice

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 10:27:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-26 18:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Joerg, are you arguing against yourself? If the presence of a bike lane
means you'd get ticketed for avoiding the debris it harbors, then it
seems stupid to ask for bike lanes!


There was no debris visible in the video. The officer also said he'll
make another camera pass a ways back. Probably to be able to prove in
court that the bike lane was clear. As they usually are.


I note you're taking sides with a bully cop instead of with a fellow cyclist.
You may not be able to see debris in a video, but the cyclist says he did. And
obviously, he wasn't riding the white line to make a point. His attitude says
to me that he simply didn't want more flats.

You're yet another segregation advocate who will sell other cyclists up the
river to defend the weird infrastructure you love.

And yes, debris is a well known disadvantage of bike lanes.



Out here they are quite clean except for the occasional items fallen
from trucks. Which you also have in the road. You seem to be living in a
filthy neighborhood.


Dude, how many inches of snow does Cameron Park get per year? How many tons of
gravel does your county have to put down on roads during the winter? In places
that _do_ have to put down gravel, where do you think it ends up? Do you
imagine that magic fairies come and carry it away?

We get lots of snow. We have salt and gravel on roads all winter, and because
of "small government" and "no more taxes" types, our roads get swept precisely
twice per year. Now, we have few bike lanes close to my home (thank goodness)
but the nearest ones have literally been buried in gravel. Road shoulders
often harbor gravel as well - not tons, but enough that I don't want to ride
through it. A sprinkling of gravel is not a disaster in itself, but it contains
and hides broken glass often enough that it is a flat tire hazard.

... I've got
photos of trashy bike lanes next to perfectly clear "normal" travel
lanes. The cars naturally sweep the debris from where their tires pass
over to the bike lane. It sits in the bike lane until the next scheduled
street sweeping. On the eight mile rural lane you wish for, it would sit
there roughly forever.


So now you need cars to make your travel routes passable? Why don't you
switch from bikes to a car then?


Get real, please. First, if there were no cars, there would be no gravel. But
then again, there would be no bike lanes, and there would probably be no
paved roads.

Yes, I know that you're so ultra-macho that you don't care about having paved
roads. Simultaneously, I know you're so wimpy that you fear riding on them.
You chose to live in a synthetic suburb in a mild climate. I live in a real
metropolitan area with four real seasons of weather. And from all I read,
I'm far more competent on the road than you are. I get along quite well with
almost all drivers, I don't need kiddy paths or quasi-"protected" cattle chutes
to ride in.

You should just stick entirely to your "gnarly" macho dirt trails, where you
can hide from the scary cars. Stop telling real road riders what you think
they need.

- Frank Krygowski
 




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