Road Discs

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:57:28 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 01/10/17 12:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2017 2:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:43:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman
wrote:

My old MTB is my commute bike, shared paths bit of gravel in places
tarmac
etc! Pads last thousands of miles literally years, the New MTB at best a
few months! Worse a few red rides, they are toast.

That's true -- particularly with the resin organic pads. You get less
stops -- but they're really GOOD stops.
So before any long ride, be sure you've loaded your bike bag with spares.


Nah, just fit different pads. But if you did want to take spares, they
are very thin and light, so no inconvenience.

--
JS

Until like happened to my friend on slope on a crushed limestone rail-trail he squeezed his disc brake lever in order to slow down a bit andthe lever went all the way to the handlebar with NO effect on his speed at all. "Look! NO BRAKES!"

For whatever reason he went through disc pads at quite a rate. I've been told that disc brakes are for HARD application of the brake NOT for modulating speed by repeated light applications which WILL wear out pads quickly. Also, apparently stone dust or dust in general will cause rapid wear of disc brake pads.

I prefer brakes that give advance warning that they are getting ready to fail. YMMV

Cheers

On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:36:52 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 12:18:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 6:01:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy bikes
where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension MTB's or in
your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see them but I would
still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my experience.
The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my friend's bike.
The point I was trying to point out was different. With disks braking
action is more easy, in terms of force and modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too easy to over-brake on a light bike.

Tom, can you tell us what hydraulic disk brakes you had/have on your crossbike?

Avid.

Didn't know Avid has hydraulic disk brakes for drop bars.

Lou

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 6:26:20 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:57:28 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 01/10/17 12:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2017 2:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:43:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman
wrote:

My old MTB is my commute bike, shared paths bit of gravel in places
tarmac
etc! Pads last thousands of miles literally years, the New MTB at best a
few months! Worse a few red rides, they are toast.

That's true -- particularly with the resin organic pads. You get less
stops -- but they're really GOOD stops.
So before any long ride, be sure you've loaded your bike bag with spares.


Nah, just fit different pads. But if you did want to take spares, they
are very thin and light, so no inconvenience.

--
JS

Until like happened to my friend on slope on a crushed limestone rail-trail he squeezed his disc brake lever in order to slow down a bit andthe lever went all the way to the handlebar with NO effect on his speed at all. "Look! NO BRAKES!"

For whatever reason he went through disc pads at quite a rate. I've been told that disc brakes are for HARD application of the brake NOT for modulating speed by repeated light applications which WILL wear out pads quickly. Also, apparently stone dust or dust in general will cause rapid wear of disc brake pads.

I prefer brakes that give advance warning that they are getting ready to fail. YMMV

You have to watch pad adjustment with cable discs. Hydraulic discs self-adjust. Both give you a warning before the pad or braking is gone. A "ticking" with Avid BB7s as the return spring hits the rotor. On my hydraulics, I blew through a pad without noticing and was braking with the aluminum carrier. No permanent rotor damage. The bike still stopped but made noise. But yes, pads wear much faster than rim brake pads, particularly resin organic.. Metal pads are probably three sets to one compared to rubber rim brake pads in year-round road riding. The ratio changes in different settings, probably never for the better.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/1/2017 2:57 AM, James wrote:
On 01/10/17 12:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2017 2:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:43:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman
wrote:

My old MTB is my commute bike, shared paths bit of gravel in places
tarmac
etc! Pads last thousands of miles literally years, the New MTB at
best a
few months! Worse a few red rides, they are toast.

That's true -- particularly with the resin organic pads.Â* You get less
stops -- but they're really GOOD stops.
So before any long ride, be sure you've loaded your bike bag with spares.


Nah, just fit different pads.Â* But if you did want to take spares, they
are very thin and light, so no inconvenience.

Agreed, they're easy to carry. Since they're not easy to find in
ordinary stores, I think it just makes sense to keep extras with the bike.

Again, I realized this when a bike tourist we hosted talked about
suddenly running out of brakes on a multi-day tour in hilly country. Few
would want that experience, but few seem to know to carry extra pads.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 6:51:54 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:36:52 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 12:18:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 6:01:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy bikes
where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension MTB's or in
your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see them but I would
still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my experience.
The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my friend's bike.
The point I was trying to point out was different. With disks braking
action is more easy, in terms of force and modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too easy to over-brake on a light bike.

Tom, can you tell us what hydraulic disk brakes you had/have on your crossbike?

Avid.

Didn't know Avid has hydraulic disk brakes for drop bars.

It's a flat bar bike. On the trails around here using drop bars is crazy. When you're going down steeper than 24% you have to have the hand strength of Hercules to stay on the bike. Hell, 15% if uncomfortable on a drop bar.

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 10:26:02 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 6:51:54 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:36:52 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 12:18:38 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 6:01:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy bikes
where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension MTB's or in
your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see them but I would
still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my experience.
The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my friend's bike.
The point I was trying to point out was different. With disks braking
action is more easy, in terms of force and modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too easy to over-brake on a light bike.

Tom, can you tell us what hydraulic disk brakes you had/have on your crossbike?

Avid.

Didn't know Avid has hydraulic disk brakes for drop bars.

It's a flat bar bike. On the trails around here using drop bars is crazy. When you're going down steeper than 24% you have to have the hand strength of Hercules to stay on the bike. Hell, 15% if uncomfortable on a drop bar.

Dude, you should rest your old bones and get a mountain bike with suspension. I'm going to do that one day. All my friends leave me behind when they go on MTB rides.



-- Jay Beattie.

On 02/10/17 00:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:57:28 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 01/10/17 12:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2017 2:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:43:35 AM UTC-7, Roger
Merriman wrote:

My old MTB is my commute bike, shared paths bit of gravel in
places tarmac etc! Pads last thousands of miles literally
years, the New MTB at best a few months! Worse a few red
rides, they are toast.

That's true -- particularly with the resin organic pads. You
get less stops -- but they're really GOOD stops.
So before any long ride, be sure you've loaded your bike bag with
spares.


Nah, just fit different pads. But if you did want to take spares,
they are very thin and light, so no inconvenience.

-- JS

Until like happened to my friend on slope on a crushed limestone
rail-trail he squeezed his disc brake lever in order to slow down a
bit andthe lever went all the way to the handlebar with NO effect on
his speed at all. "Look! NO BRAKES!"

For whatever reason he went through disc pads at quite a rate. I've
been told that disc brakes are for HARD application of the brake NOT
for modulating speed by repeated light applications which WILL wear
out pads quickly. Also, apparently stone dust or dust in general will
cause rapid wear of disc brake pads.

I prefer brakes that give advance warning that they are getting ready
to fail. YMMV

Cheers


Yawn. Sounds like a Joerg story.

My MTB with mechanical disc brakes hasn't worn out a set of pads yet,
and I use them like any other brake.

--
JS

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 8:17:30 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/10/17 00:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 2:57:28 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 01/10/17 12:46, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2017 2:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2017 at 9:43:35 AM UTC-7, Roger
Merriman wrote:

My old MTB is my commute bike, shared paths bit of gravel in
places tarmac etc! Pads last thousands of miles literally
years, the New MTB at best a few months! Worse a few red
rides, they are toast.

That's true -- particularly with the resin organic pads. You
get less stops -- but they're really GOOD stops.
So before any long ride, be sure you've loaded your bike bag with
spares.


Nah, just fit different pads. But if you did want to take spares,
they are very thin and light, so no inconvenience.

-- JS

Until like happened to my friend on slope on a crushed limestone
rail-trail he squeezed his disc brake lever in order to slow down a
bit andthe lever went all the way to the handlebar with NO effect on
his speed at all. "Look! NO BRAKES!"

For whatever reason he went through disc pads at quite a rate. I've
been told that disc brakes are for HARD application of the brake NOT
for modulating speed by repeated light applications which WILL wear
out pads quickly. Also, apparently stone dust or dust in general will
cause rapid wear of disc brake pads.

I prefer brakes that give advance warning that they are getting ready
to fail. YMMV

Cheers


Yawn. Sounds like a Joerg story.

My MTB with mechanical disc brakes hasn't worn out a set of pads yet,
and I use them like any other brake.

--
JS

To you it might sound like a Joerg story but for my buddy it was a real discwear problem. Three bicycles shops two of which specialize in cyclo-cross or competition MTB riding could NOT figure out what his problem was. Eventually my buddy gave up and got wheels that'd take V-brakes, put V-brakes on the bike and has been happy with his braking eversince which has been a number of years now.

Bad rotors? Incompatible rotors and brake discs? Idon't know but it did sour me on disc brakes for myself. Before that I was thinking that disc brakes on a touring bike would be nice because they would NOT interfere with panniers. Perhaps he just got a bad setup? He paid $1,500.00 CDN for that Davinci and that was maybe ten years ago.

Cheers

Il 29/09/2017 18:01, ha scritto:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy
bikes where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension
MTB's or in your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see
them but I would still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my
experience. The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my
friend's bike. The point I was trying to point out was different.
With disks braking action is more easy, in terms of force and
modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would
NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they
have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too
easy to over-brake on a light bike.


Probably, that's what I meant, writing "if the system is properly set",
suggesting to wait a few more months, before purchasing a road disk race
bike. All the systems are new and probably a few of them are not
correctly engineered for the narrow wheels installed on a race bike.
It's too early to point out which are the best systems, now.
Just to mention: I have Avid Elixir 3, which is probably similar to what
you have on your cross bike, but they are a perfect match with my
(heavy) bike. Not too sensitive, for sure. Easy is the right word. NEVER
locked wheels.

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 11:55:11 PM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 29/09/2017 18:01, ha scritto:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy
bikes where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension
MTB's or in your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see
them but I would still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my
experience. The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my
friend's bike. The point I was trying to point out was different.
With disks braking action is more easy, in terms of force and
modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would
NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they
have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too
easy to over-brake on a light bike.


Probably, that's what I meant, writing "if the system is properly set",
suggesting to wait a few more months, before purchasing a road disk race
bike. All the systems are new and probably a few of them are not
correctly engineered for the narrow wheels installed on a race bike.
It's too early to point out which are the best systems, now.
Just to mention: I have Avid Elixir 3, which is probably similar to what
you have on your cross bike, but they are a perfect match with my
(heavy) bike. Not too sensitive, for sure. Easy is the right word. NEVER
locked wheels.

Shimano makes a range of hydraulic discs for road bikes. They work beautifully, and the shaking-out of standards relates more to frame mounts and through axle standards for frames. The brakes themselves modulate well and haven't been a problem for me, and IMO, the technology is pretty mature. My first set was on a Roubaix that got stolen, and the second set is on a gravel bike with narrow tires which is now doubling as my "fast" bike, which it isn't. Great for riding in the rain.

The cable discs on my commuter are finally dialed-in. I replaced a weak rear first-generation Avid BB7 as well as some cable housing that added a ton of drag. They take more hand pressure than hydraulics but are exceptionally simple and effective when properly set-up.

-- Jay Beattie.