Headsets

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
Integrated races are usually press fit bearings. My preferences for press fit is that you would push it into the head tube but many companies have opted to make the press fit onto the steering tube which is an improper way to use a bearing but since it isn't really loaded it doesn't make any difference.

On 11/10/2020 10:23 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark


This fork, right?

https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bi...rbon-road-fork

Fully compatible with the headset linked earlier. The angled
bearing seat on the crown is not a wearing part on modern
forks of this style.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark

You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:54:45 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 10:23 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark

This fork, right?

https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bi...rbon-road-fork

Fully compatible with the headset linked earlier. The angled
bearing seat on the crown is not a wearing part on modern
forks of this style.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Well, you see that more than I do. I cannot quite see how you can have that taper and use the fork with a standard headset.

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 9:07:35 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them.. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
Ooops. This is the link I meant to send. https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bi...rbon-road-fork

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/10/2020 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:

Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark

You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

I'm interested in the discussion, but not enough to read about the
Oregon Mutual Insurance Company.

Bad link?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them.. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

On 11/10/2020 12:12 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Ooops. This is the link I meant to send. https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bi...rbon-road-fork

-- Jay Beattie.

Thanks.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 9:16:05 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/10/2020 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:

Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark

You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

I'm interested in the discussion, but not enough to read about the
Oregon Mutual Insurance Company.

Bad link?


--
- Frank Krygowski

That was a work link saved to my clipboard.

Anyway, for Mark, so long as his HS is spec'd with a 45 degree lower bearing and is 1/8", there should be no problems. The bearing has an angled surface to the inner race. All HS bearing cartridges have an angled surface on the inner race of both the upper and lower cartridges. You do have to make sure those angles match.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/10/2020 11:07 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:54:45 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 10:23 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG

Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark

This fork, right?

https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bi...rbon-road-fork

Fully compatible with the headset linked earlier. The angled
bearing seat on the crown is not a wearing part on modern
forks of this style.

Well, you see that more than I do. I cannot quite see how you can have that taper and use the fork with a standard headset.


Cartridge headsets have a bearing with tapered face. Either
use the lower seat or not depending on fork. Jay just noted
that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971