Don't make Lance Mad

K. J. Papai wrote:


How do you yourself, Jonathan, get motivated to race then?

He thinks about what a G.D. S.O.B. that ****ING LANCE ARMSTRONG IS!!!

It makes him so mad!

Why can't Lance say nice things about people all the time like Jonathon
does?


--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"alex" wrote in message
...
Being a fascist does not necessarily mean you are an antisemit with
genocidal impulses.

I know. It was only from 1938 on that Mussolini adopted an anti-semitic
policy. Before that there were even some prominent fascists who were Jewish.

Benjo Maso



In fact, F. Franco in Spain (a reputed fascist) was
"supportive" of the Hitler and Mussolini (that had helped him to win the
spainish civil war), and on the other hand he did not move a finger to
opposse the transit of thousands of jews through Spain to escape (many via
Portugal, with another fascist dictator) to the US and Southamerica.

Officilly, Spain did not recognize Israel till the 70s (the last in
europe)
and Franco always put the blame of everything wrong in the country on a
consipiracy among jews, communists and free-masons... In fact even Israel
has publicly praised Franco's attitude in this matter.

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in
message
...
alex wrote:

The estimates for the number of Jews murdered during the holocaust
is
(source Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners"):

100K Netherlands
134-141.5K Germany.

so in proportion the number was much higher in the Netherlands


I am by no means a scholar of the Holocaust. But it is reasonable
(to
me) to think that a larger proportion of German jews left the
country
between the time Hitler came to power in 1933 and the beginning of
the
Holocaust.
Personally, I have a tough time believing in either collective guilt
or
collective virtue. And for my flippant comment about the Swedes
(which
I have heard from Europeans) there was of course Raoul Wallenberg.
So
there was plenty of blame to go around, and plenty of good
people--in
all the countries.

IIRC, Gino Bartali resided in the Vatican City during the war and
helped
to
get Jews out of Italy while Coppi went into the Army and was taken
prisoner.
On the other side, it has been debated for some time whether or not
the
then
Pope, Pius ??, was actually anti-Semitic. Good and bad are
everywhere.


Bartali didn't reside in the Vatican during the war. But it's true that
he
risked his life to help Jews in hiding. It's also true that Coppi went
in
the army, but he was drafted and certainly didn't volunteer. And the
fact
that he didn't get dispensation (like almost all the others well known
sportsmen) is a clear indication that he didn't symphatize with the
fascist
regime.

Benjo Maso

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in
message
...
alex wrote:

The estimates for the number of Jews murdered during the holocaust
is
(source Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners"):

100K Netherlands
134-141.5K Germany.

so in proportion the number was much higher in the Netherlands


I am by no means a scholar of the Holocaust. But it is reasonable (to
me) to think that a larger proportion of German jews left the country
between the time Hitler came to power in 1933 and the beginning of the
Holocaust.
Personally, I have a tough time believing in either collective guilt
or
collective virtue. And for my flippant comment about the Swedes
(which
I have heard from Europeans) there was of course Raoul Wallenberg. So
there was plenty of blame to go around, and plenty of good people--in
all the countries.

IIRC, Gino Bartali resided in the Vatican City during the war and helped
to
get Jews out of Italy while Coppi went into the Army and was taken
prisoner.
On the other side, it has been debated for some time whether or not the
then
Pope, Pius ??, was actually anti-Semitic. Good and bad are everywhere.


Bartali didn't reside in the Vatican during the war. But it's true that he
risked his life to help Jews in hiding. It's also true that Coppi went in
the army, but he was drafted and certainly didn't volunteer. And the fact
that he didn't get dispensation (like almost all the others well known
sportsmen) is a clear indication that he didn't symphatize with the
fascist
regime.

Benjo Maso

Somewhat ironic, isn't it, that someone not supportive of a government winds
up in uniform, in combat (maybe not?) fighting for that government? I've
read what books are available in English on Coppi, Jean-Paul Ollivier's
being the most extensive, and have not seen Coppi's military situation
discussed other than that he was drafted and a POW. Can you provide any
additional info on the politics of Coppi, if any?

On Friday 06 August 2004 01:26, Tom Paterson wrote:
My mother-in-law [...] in Dordrecht

Does she know the grocery store that my grandfather (same last name as
I) had on the Vrieseweg?

"B. Lafferty" writes:


Somewhat ironic, isn't it, that someone not supportive of a government winds
up in uniform, in combat (maybe not?) fighting for that government? I've
read what books are available in English on Coppi, Jean-Paul Ollivier's
being the most extensive, and have not seen Coppi's military situation
discussed other than that he was drafted and a POW. Can you provide any
additional info on the politics of Coppi, if any?


Ausendre, Jacques

Fausto Coppi

London: Bromley Books, 1999. 157 pp. Photo biography of the great Italian racer.

--
le vent a dos, Davey Crockett
http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
ink.net...

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in
message
...
alex wrote:

The estimates for the number of Jews murdered during the holocaust
is
(source Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners"):

100K Netherlands
134-141.5K Germany.

so in proportion the number was much higher in the Netherlands


I am by no means a scholar of the Holocaust. But it is reasonable
(to
me) to think that a larger proportion of German jews left the
country
between the time Hitler came to power in 1933 and the beginning of
the
Holocaust.
Personally, I have a tough time believing in either collective guilt
or
collective virtue. And for my flippant comment about the Swedes
(which
I have heard from Europeans) there was of course Raoul Wallenberg.
So
there was plenty of blame to go around, and plenty of good
people--in
all the countries.

IIRC, Gino Bartali resided in the Vatican City during the war and
helped
to
get Jews out of Italy while Coppi went into the Army and was taken
prisoner.
On the other side, it has been debated for some time whether or not
the
then
Pope, Pius ??, was actually anti-Semitic. Good and bad are
everywhere.


Bartali didn't reside in the Vatican during the war. But it's true that
he
risked his life to help Jews in hiding. It's also true that Coppi went
in
the army, but he was drafted and certainly didn't volunteer. And the
fact
that he didn't get dispensation (like almost all the others well known
sportsmen) is a clear indication that he didn't symphatize with the
fascist
regime.

Benjo Maso

Somewhat ironic, isn't it, that someone not supportive of a government
winds
up in uniform, in combat (maybe not?) fighting for that government?

Absolutely. In Germany the same happened to Joe Louis' famous opponent Max
Schmeling, who was also punished for his anti-nazi stand to be enlisted.

I've read what books are available in English on Coppi, Jean-Paul
Ollivier's
being the most extensive, and have not seen Coppi's military situation
discussed other than that he was drafted and a POW. Can you provide any
additional info on the politics of Coppi, if any?

Coppi was drafted in 1940 but initially could continue his career. In march
1943 however, he was sent to North Africa. He hardly saw combat and on 17
May, the day when the Italian army in Tunesia capitulated, he was made
prisoner by the English. In februari 1945 he was transferred to Italy and
released in May. Concerning politics: he was hardly interested. The legend
claims that he was communist or at the very least socialist, but that's
quite untrue. Before the extremely important of elections of 1948 not only
the Popular Front, but also the Christian-Democrats tried to recrute him,
but he refused. However, he signed an appeal to the Italian people to vote
"patriotically", which meant for the Christian-Democrats (so did Bartali).

Benjo Maso

Tom Kunich wrote:

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in message
...

I don't think he is a hero, and I don't think he's clean. But Benjo Maso's
post has reluctantly convinced me, so we both hope he doesn't get caught.
Which is the same in a practical sense.

Tell me, why is it that so many others are being caught doping but somehow
Lance isn't? How is it that Rumsas got caught? Even though he KNEW he was
under a microscope he got caught? Could it POSSIBLY be because there's no
such thing as undetectable drugging?


LANCE IS A DIABOLICAL GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GO LANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Stewart Fleming wrote:


The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry


By the way, an 800-lb elephant is quite small. Typically a 1-year old
male African elephant is 1000lbs.


You know lot about elephants. Do you know the air speed velocity of
a fully laden swallow?

Laden with what?

A large bin laden with... o'soma this and o'soma that. It's more of a
pig than an elephant tho.

From: Ewoud Dronkert

Does she know the grocery store that my grandfather (same last name as
I) had on the Vrieseweg?

I'll find out. If not, my father in law might.

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
ink.net...

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" wrote in
message
...
alex wrote:

The estimates for the number of Jews murdered during the
holocaust
is
(source Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners"):

100K Netherlands
134-141.5K Germany.

so in proportion the number was much higher in the Netherlands


I am by no means a scholar of the Holocaust. But it is reasonable
(to
me) to think that a larger proportion of German jews left the
country
between the time Hitler came to power in 1933 and the beginning of
the
Holocaust.
Personally, I have a tough time believing in either collective
guilt
or
collective virtue. And for my flippant comment about the Swedes
(which
I have heard from Europeans) there was of course Raoul Wallenberg.
So
there was plenty of blame to go around, and plenty of good
people--in
all the countries.

IIRC, Gino Bartali resided in the Vatican City during the war and
helped
to
get Jews out of Italy while Coppi went into the Army and was taken
prisoner.
On the other side, it has been debated for some time whether or not
the
then
Pope, Pius ??, was actually anti-Semitic. Good and bad are
everywhere.


Bartali didn't reside in the Vatican during the war. But it's true
that
he
risked his life to help Jews in hiding. It's also true that Coppi went
in
the army, but he was drafted and certainly didn't volunteer. And the
fact
that he didn't get dispensation (like almost all the others well known
sportsmen) is a clear indication that he didn't symphatize with the
fascist
regime.

Benjo Maso

Somewhat ironic, isn't it, that someone not supportive of a government
winds
up in uniform, in combat (maybe not?) fighting for that government?

Absolutely. In Germany the same happened to Joe Louis' famous opponent Max
Schmeling, who was also punished for his anti-nazi stand to be enlisted.

I've read what books are available in English on Coppi, Jean-Paul
Ollivier's
being the most extensive, and have not seen Coppi's military situation
discussed other than that he was drafted and a POW. Can you provide any
additional info on the politics of Coppi, if any?

Coppi was drafted in 1940 but initially could continue his career. In
march
1943 however, he was sent to North Africa. He hardly saw combat and on 17
May, the day when the Italian army in Tunesia capitulated, he was made
prisoner by the English. In februari 1945 he was transferred to Italy and
released in May. Concerning politics: he was hardly interested. The legend
claims that he was communist or at the very least socialist, but that's
quite untrue. Before the extremely important of elections of 1948 not only
the Popular Front, but also the Christian-Democrats tried to recrute him,
but he refused. However, he signed an appeal to the Italian people to vote
"patriotically", which meant for the Christian-Democrats (so did Bartali).

Benjo Maso

Fascinating. Thanks!