|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. (...) There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits called Power Cordz: https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/ Their web site at: http://www.powercordz.com is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169 https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/ If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema, Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence in the idea. Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech. "Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid Fiber" https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers" https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On 8/4/21 1:19 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/7/2021 12:18 AM, James wrote: On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11.Â* Great.Â* In the middle of a 9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one. I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and started over.Â* Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike. The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable Di2. The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take out the door and grab the broken cable and end.Â* No more fishing it out of the lever. I hadn't heard about that. It sounds like a nice improvement. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in the middle of a tour.Â* I had a spare. I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using cable actuated gears and brakes. Do you replace them regularly? Could that be why? What is regularly? I usually wait until the outer plastic is cracked and rust is showing, then wait until the next time I replace handlebar tape and replace cables and tape at the same time. Probably every 2-3 years or more? The tape gets replaced more often because I usually end up wearing a hole in it somewhere. But I've also learned to notice the first strands of the shift cable breaking at the bar end control. They stick out and poke my finger, a nice early warning system. Once I had gear change problems and it turned out to be a couple of broken strands in the Campagnolo Ergo lever body. I didn't need to unscrew a secret trapdoor to extract the cable. I think Campagnolo levers are much easier to work on. You can disassemble, clean and reassemble them fairly easily. -- JS |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 7:10:23 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 8/4/21 1:19 am, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/7/2021 12:18 AM, James wrote: On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a 9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one. I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike. The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable Di2. The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it out of the lever. I hadn't heard about that. It sounds like a nice improvement. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in the middle of a tour. I had a spare. I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using cable actuated gears and brakes. Do you replace them regularly? Could that be why? What is regularly? I usually wait until the outer plastic is cracked and rust is showing, then wait until the next time I replace handlebar tape and replace cables and tape at the same time. Probably every 2-3 years or more? The tape gets replaced more often because I usually end up wearing a hole in it somewhere. But I've also learned to notice the first strands of the shift cable breaking at the bar end control. They stick out and poke my finger, a nice early warning system. Once I had gear change problems and it turned out to be a couple of broken strands in the Campagnolo Ergo lever body. I didn't need to unscrew a secret trapdoor to extract the cable. I think Campagnolo levers are much easier to work on. You can disassemble, clean and reassemble them fairly easily. I'm told the most recent Campy levers are not rebuildable -- or they are rebuildable, but the parts are not available. One or the other. My son had a left STI lever go dead on a ride, and it was not fixable -- or I couldn't fix it. That's the only STI lever I've had go belly up in almost 30 years.. Every other issue I've resolved with a WD40 flush and lubrication. The new trap door feature gives you good access to the innards for cleaning and lubricating. It's not the same as being rebuildable, but it is an improvement. -- Jay Beattie. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
James wrote:
On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a 9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one. I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike. The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable Di2. The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in the middle of a tour. I had a spare. I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time & distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison. I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using cable actuated gears and brakes. I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t be cleaned/lubed into life. Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never snapped a hanger... Roger Merriman |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. (...) There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits called Power Cordz: https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/ Their web site at: http://www.powercordz.com is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169 https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/ If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema, Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence in the idea. Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech. "Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid Fiber" https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers" https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:32:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
James wrote: On 7/4/21 2:09 pm, jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. Great. In the middle of a 9% grade, that turned at the top to another climb, but a short one. I tacked a bit, got home and then jumped on the Di2 disc Synapse and started over. Heavier with fenders, etc., but still a nice bike. The discs, BTW, don't drag at all. Thank Buddha for that reliable Di2. The good thing about the latest Ultegra levers is that there is a trap door under the lever body, and you can remove one screw, take out the door and grab the broken cable and end. No more fishing it out of the lever. This is the second time in 20 years on STI that I've broken a cable. Before that I broke a friction bar-end cable in the middle of a tour. I had a spare. I guess when you've been riding the Di2 setup for the same time & distance you'll be able to make a more reasonable comparison. I'm still waiting to break a cable after more than 30 years of using cable actuated gears and brakes. I tend to have to replace as the cable gets sticky, and after a while can’t be cleaned/lubed into life. Don’t think I’ve ever snapped a cable. Mind you until this year had never snapped a hanger... Now that they are making replaceable hangers the aluminum material is of the wrong alloy and is very brittle. I don't think that this is to allow break away in case of a crash or to make people buy more of them but simply that alloy is just cheaper than hell. It appears to be almost pure aluminum. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On 4/8/2021 7:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. (...) There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits called Power Cordz: https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/ Their web site at: http://www.powercordz.com is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169 https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/ If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema, Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence in the idea. Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech. "Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid Fiber" https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers" https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material. We use a coated Kevlar cord with ceramic magnet set to thread wires through modern internal route frames. Passing that through casing would not seem a barrier. The failure mode of a steel or stainless steel gear wire is fraying at the capstan and I doubt Kevlar/Aramid would give any better life, likely worse. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 7:00:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2021 7:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: A few miles into my evening ride on my cable-shift Emonda -- with my wife pushing me on her ebike, I shifted to go up the next hill and snap -- immediate downshift into 34/11. (...) There used to be a company selling carbon fiber brake cable kits called Power Cordz: https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear/wrenched-and-ridden-power-cordz-brake-and-shifter-cables/ Their web site at: http://www.powercordz.com is gone, so I assume that something went wrong with the company or product. Seems to be a tolerable alternative. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=254169 https://www.pinkbike.com/news/power-cordz-review-2010.html https://www.roadbikerider.com/power-cordz-d1/ If you don't mind risking your bicycle, life, and future, you can possibly replace the steel brake wire with a different material, such as carbon fiber or various Aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Dyneema, Spectra Amsteel Blue, etc. However, if the risk is too much, use the standard stainless steel cable in rear brake, and the CF or Aramid fiber replacement in the front brake, until you have some confidence in the idea. Remember, you have but one life to give for advancing bicycle tech. "Understanding The Subtle Differences Between Carbon Fiber And Aramid Fiber" https://pur-carbon.com/blogs/news/understanding-the-subtle-differences-between-carbon-fiber-and-aramid-fiber Kevlar Ropes, Cables, and Fibers" https://www.dupont.com/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/ropes-cables.html Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material. We use a coated Kevlar cord with ceramic magnet set to thread wires through modern internal route frames. Passing that through casing would not seem a barrier. The failure mode of a steel or stainless steel gear wire is fraying at the capstan and I doubt Kevlar/Aramid would give any better life, likely worse. The Trek uses a cable stop/port with entry holes the diameter of inner-wire liner, and in fact a liner with a flared end is placed in the hole. https://tinyurl.com/ecv585cj What this means is that you can't put the old and new cable ends together with a crimp-cable end and then pull the new cable through -- unless you remove the port and put the new cable through and crimp it to the old cable after the port. The good news is that its not hard to locate the cable if you just feed it into the frame through the port. There is a window at the bottom of the DT, and you just grab the cable with a hook. I'm re-doing both shift and a brake cable just because. And some new brake pads. -- Jay Beattie. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? Two ways. Pull or push. For pull, I would run a metal wire through the cable housing, attach to Kevlar fiber with glue, and pull on the metal wire. For push, I would glue a wad of cotton to form a shuttle on the end of the Kevlar fiber. A conical dart shape should work. Insert the shuttle into the cable housing and blow it through housing using compressed air. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_jetting As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. We all don't know that. You might, but we don't. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material. Pressure? Stainless is excellent in compression (also known as pressure) but might have problems in tension or torsion. Broken molecular bonds? Lots of ways to do that but none seem to be found in a brake cable: https://www.google.com/search?q=break+molecular+bonds In general, one needs to input sufficient energy to beak the molecular bond, usually forming ions or different molecules. Maybe Jay exposes his brake cables to ionizing radiation, which is known to break molecular bonds. Perhaps you could re-write your description of metal fatigue failure in a manner expected from a "real engineer"? -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
GD cable derailleurs!
On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 10:49:48 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: Jeff, try picturing threading a Kevlar inner cable through the outer. Now how would you expect to do that? Two ways. Pull or push. For pull, I would run a metal wire through the cable housing, attach to Kevlar fiber with glue, and pull on the metal wire. For push, I would glue a wad of cotton to form a shuttle on the end of the Kevlar fiber. A conical dart shape should work. Insert the shuttle into the cable housing and blow it through housing using compressed air. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_jetting As a real engineer I have some ideas that could work but why when stainless steel is more than sufficient. Jay is a lawyer and not a mechanic. We all know that he broke a cable probably because he overtightened it at the derailleur and broke the strands. We all don't know that. You might, but we don't. Stainless is extremely good at weather resistance but very bad at pressures that overload the molecular bond of the material. Pressure? Stainless is excellent in compression (also known as pressure) but might have problems in tension or torsion. Broken molecular bonds? Lots of ways to do that but none seem to be found in a brake cable: https://www.google.com/search?q=break+molecular+bonds In general, one needs to input sufficient energy to beak the molecular bond, usually forming ions or different molecules. Maybe Jay exposes his brake cables to ionizing radiation, which is known to break molecular bonds. Perhaps you could re-write your description of metal fatigue failure in a manner expected from a "real engineer"? People who pretend to be engineers are tiring. You have already told us that you only rarely ride a bicycle anymore so perhaps you might want to explain what you're even doing on this group? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
SOLDERING CABLE ENDS (BARREL) ON STAINLESS STEEL CABLE | [email protected] | Techniques | 5 | August 5th 12 11:38 PM |
Newbie Q: New Shifter and R Derailleur Cable Installed - Cable Stretch? | Jay - BFri Commuter | General | 12 | April 30th 07 11:59 PM |
Converting a Brake Cable To a Shifter Cable | Bret Cahill | Techniques | 42 | March 8th 07 09:43 PM |
Campagnolo rear derailleurs cable housing end cap CG-CS013. | [email protected] | Techniques | 6 | December 25th 05 02:00 AM |
Nashbar Derailleur Cable Housings = Brake Cable Housings | Mike Beauchamp | Techniques | 12 | August 8th 04 05:52 PM |